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microwavedbeef
2016-12-14, 05:38 PM
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20161214/murray-hill/yasmin-seweid-trump-hijab-nypd-nyc-hate-crime-anti-muslim-false-report

She claimed she was beat up on a subway by white males yelling Trump. (spoiler alert- she wasn't)

Not surprising, The Koran specifically says it's fine for them to deceive non-Muslims.

Omega - am i right or am i right? Muslims are taught to Lie to non muslims. Im confident Sec. of Defense mad dog mattis will put an end to the hate group known as Islam.

Notorious Street Fighter
2016-12-14, 05:41 PM
Omega will lie to you about the fact that the Koran tells muslims to lie to non muslims, since we are all non muslims and he is a muslim. Be wary of his ways. I will take his words with a pinch of salt.

Still my favorite mod though.

microwavedbeef
2016-12-14, 05:42 PM
Omega will lie to you about the fact that the Koran tells muslims to lie to non muslims, since we are all non muslims and he is a muslim. Be wary of his ways. I will take his words with a pinch of salt.

Still my favorite mod though.

fucking LOL

so true, except damnrightbrah is my fav mod

repped

ZUZZBRAH
2016-12-14, 05:45 PM
Seems legit

:cage:

microwavedbeef
2016-12-14, 05:49 PM
its called

al Taqiyya- which basically means they HAVE to lie and deceive non muslims so they can hurt them later.

this "religion" requires its members to lie and be immoral. worse than the KKK really.

Omega
2016-12-14, 06:24 PM
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20161214/murray-hill/yasmin-seweid-trump-hijab-nypd-nyc-hate-crime-anti-muslim-false-report

She claimed she was beat up on a subway by white males yelling Trump. (spoiler alert- she wasn't)

Not surprising, The Koran specifically says it's fine for them to deceive non-Muslims.

Omega - am i right or am i right? Muslims are taught to Lie to non muslims. Im confident Sec. of Defense mad dog mattis will put an end to the hate group known as Islam.

where does the quran say that?


its called

al Taqiyya- which basically means they HAVE to lie and deceive non muslims so they can hurt them later.

this "religion" requires its members to lie and be immoral. worse than the KKK really.

source that from the quran or the sunnah otherwise shut the fuck up

PissBrah
2016-12-14, 06:29 PM
I hope someone kills her

microwavedbeef
2016-12-14, 06:31 PM
where does the quran say that?



source that from the quran or the sunnah otherwise shut the fuck up

Notorious Street Fighter

u were right, hes lying about lying...go figure.

Omega
2016-12-14, 06:36 PM
Notorious Street Fighter

u were right, hes lying about lying...go figure.

i didn't make a claim, i asked you to substantiate your own claim u filthy pig

so either do it or keep ur vile mouth shut

microwavedbeef
2016-12-14, 06:41 PM
i didn't make a claim, i asked you to substantiate your own claim u filthy pig

so either do it or keep ur vile mouth shut

16:106

3:28

3:54 - basically states allah is the best liar lmao

look up Taqiyya if you want more of my reasoning

17:64 Seduce them with your voice and assault them with your cavalry and your infantry, be a partner in their wealth and their children and give them promises ,but what satan promises them,is only a delusion

microwavedbeef
2016-12-14, 06:48 PM
i didn't make a claim, i asked you to substantiate your own claim u filthy pig

so either do it or keep ur vile mouth shut

Taqiyya ("al Taqiyya") is the Muslims' license to lie to infidels in order to camouflage Islam's holy war strategy (jihad) to conquer the world. The strategy mentioned through orders and solicitations in the Quran 3:28 and other Islamic writings and reference applies to all Western countries and against all infidels people (non-muslims) who is not
Islamic and therefore seen as a constant threat to Islam.

Quran 3:28 or Quran 3:28 are two different translations of the Quran verse and says exactly the same in summary:

"Let not the believers (muslims) take the unbelievers for friends, or their companions instead for the believers (muslims): if someone does, then you have no contact with Allah [They
does not represent islam anymore and can be killed ]: unless muslims take precautions, and plays fake (Guard yourselves from them) [Which means that muslims say that they are unbelievers (non-muslim's) best friends when in fact they hate them ].

One of the so-called largest Islamic commentators and historians of all "Ibn Kathir"commented the above sura (chapter) 3 and verse 28 of the Quran and said that "muslims are allowed to show friendship outwardly, but never inwardly)." . Another renowned scholar among muslims, "Al-Bukhari" commented by saying that "We[muslims] smile in the face of some people[non-muslims] although our hearts curse them".

LeftAnteriorDeltoidBrah
2016-12-14, 07:17 PM
where does the quran say that?



source that from the quran or the sunnah otherwise shut the fuck up

Do all sects of Islam follow the Hadiths?
Tbh the Koran is no worse than the Bible but some of the crap in the Hadiths is next level shit

PissBrah
2016-12-14, 07:18 PM
Hahaha put that Omega scum in his place

microwavedbeef
2016-12-14, 07:53 PM
Do all sects of Islam follow the Hadiths?
Tbh the Koran is no worse than the Bible but some of the crap in the Hadiths is next level shit

not true. although i dont subscribe to any religion; the Bible's main message is the golden rule...ie "Love thy Neighbor"

this is true for pretty much every religion except Islam....which is basically, "Love thy neighbor, only if they are muslim...if not then kill them"

huge difference

Omega
2016-12-15, 09:43 AM
16:106

3:28

3:54 - basically states allah is the best liar lmao

look up Taqiyya if you want more of my reasoning

17:64 Seduce them with your voice and assault them with your cavalry and your infantry, be a partner in their wealth and their children and give them promises ,but what satan promises them,is only a delusion

16:106 Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah , and for them is a great punishment;

^ This is the ONLY use for taqiyyah

3:28 not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.

^ this is saying don't take kuffar as awliya which is like an ally (friend is not a god translation), this has nothing to do with "lying to them" you're an idiot

3:54 And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners.

^ how is god saying he planned to deceive the disbelievers (as punishment) saying muslims can just lie to non muslims?

all your arguments are non-sequitors i asked for ONE VERSE that says a muslim can lie to a non muslim to trick them into converting or something like that. just one. it doesn't exist. no shit we can lie to our enemies in a time of war, no shit we can lie to kuffar who will kill us in order to save our lives... how is this proof of anything u said u absolute moron.

Omega
2016-12-15, 09:47 AM
not true. although i dont subscribe to any religion; the Bible's main message is the golden rule...ie "Love thy Neighbor"

this is true for pretty much every religion except Islam....which is basically, "Love thy neighbor, only if they are muslim...if not then kill them"

huge difference

عائشة عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال : ما زال جبريل يوصيني بالجار حتى ظننت أنه سيورثه
Aishah narrated: The prophet ص said, "Jibreel (Gabriel) kept urging me to be good to my neighbors until I thought he would make them my heirs"

:jordan:

yes this applies to non muslims too according to all scholars

nihilixm
2016-12-15, 09:47 AM
I hope someone kills her

Omega
2016-12-15, 10:11 AM
Do all sects of Islam follow the Hadiths?
Tbh the Koran is no worse than the Bible but some of the crap in the Hadiths is next level shit

Don't just make generalities. If you're going to criticize something be man enough to pose a real argument.

LeftAnteriorDeltoidBrah
2016-12-15, 10:19 AM
Don't just make generalities. If you're going to criticize something be man enough to pose a real argument.

Don't be so defensive. I'm not looking for an argument or debate, I just asked a question which I am genuinely curious of the answer to.

StreetRacerBlahino
2016-12-15, 11:28 AM
Omega why do you believe some mystical being created the universe

Notorious Street Fighter
2016-12-15, 11:38 AM
Omega why do you believe some mystical being created the universe

Oy vey, we all evolved from a tree branch.

Good goy.

Simba
2016-12-15, 12:37 PM
It's not the religion

Women use cunning to get what they want because they're the weaker sex

microwavedbeef
2016-12-15, 12:53 PM
to sum up this thread-

Omega: PROVE TO ME MUSLIMS LIE
me: ok (i lists reasons and kuran verses)
Omega: denies them (lying like muslims do) and posts his typical Michael Jordan laughing gif as a major form of COPE

/thread

microwavedbeef
2016-12-15, 01:30 PM
Don't be so defensive. I'm not looking for an argument or debate, I just asked a question which I am genuinely curious of the answer to.

hes very defensive cuz hes in super Cope mode.

btw in 3:54 - the word is not "planned" lol at omega lying ITT

Omega
2016-12-15, 03:05 PM
Don't be so defensive. I'm not looking for an argument or debate, I just asked a question which I am genuinely curious of the answer to.

sorry i'm not trying to be defensive.

there are quraniyoon faggots who reject all hadith, but they make no sense because for example no where in the quran does it tell us how to pray, you need hadiths to tell you the actual process of wudhu, and salat. so you can't have one without the other.


Omega why do you believe some mystical being created the universe

why do you believe a random set of arbitrary forces just happens to exist that facilitated the universe's creation? how is that more logical than a god? neither can be empirically proven, and they both make the same assumption that something "exists" just because it exists.

Omega
2016-12-15, 03:06 PM
hes very defensive cuz hes in super Cope mode.

btw in 3:54 - the word is not "planned" lol at omega lying ITT

it doesn't say lie either. it doesn't have a 1:1 english translation. but since you're an arabic expert why don't you define it for us--also if you notice I used the word "deceive" when i spoke about it.

:jordan:

Omega
2016-12-15, 03:08 PM
to sum up this thread-

Omega: PROVE TO ME MUSLIMS LIE
me: ok (i lists reasons and kuran verses)
Omega: denies them (lying like muslims do) and posts his typical Michael Jordan laughing gif as a major form of COPE

/thread

lol u too scared to quote me ? u just want this thread to go away don't you before u make even more of a fool of urself.

u posted verses which either proved my point on taqiyyah (its only used to save you from harm/death), and then just random arbitrary verses about war or punishments against kuffar.

yet if i remember correctly your argument is us muslims are instructed to LIE to non muslims for any reason we want.... yet still no verse OR hadith on that.

its funny when someone so stupid tries to talk about something they know nothing about

microwavedbeef
2016-12-15, 03:24 PM
lol u too scared to quote me ? u just want this thread to go away don't you before u make even more of a fool of urself.

u posted verses which either proved my point on taqiyyah (its only used to save you from harm/death), and then just random arbitrary verses about war or punishments against kuffar.

yet if i remember correctly your argument is us muslims are instructed to LIE to non muslims for any reason we want.... yet still no verse OR hadith on that.

its funny when someone so stupid tries to talk about something they know nothing about

Sahih Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).

microwavedbeef
2016-12-15, 03:25 PM
lol u too scared to quote me ? u just want this thread to go away don't you before u make even more of a fool of urself.

u posted verses which either proved my point on taqiyyah (its only used to save you from harm/death), and then just random arbitrary verses about war or punishments against kuffar.

yet if i remember correctly your argument is us muslims are instructed to LIE to non muslims for any reason we want.... yet still no verse OR hadith on that.

its funny when someone so stupid tries to talk about something they know nothing about

Sahih Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered.

microwavedbeef
2016-12-15, 03:26 PM
it doesn't say lie either. it doesn't have a 1:1 english translation. but since you're an arabic expert why don't you define it for us--also if you notice I used the word "deceive" when i spoke about it.

:jordan:


Kitman - Lying by omission. An example would be when Muslim apologists quote only a fragment of verse 5:32 (that if anyone kills "it shall be as if he had killed all mankind") while neglecting to mention that the rest of the verse (and the next) mandate murder in undefined cases of "corruption" and "mischief."

(Obama has done this BTW)

microwavedbeef
2016-12-15, 03:26 PM
lol u too scared to quote me ? u just want this thread to go away don't you before u make even more of a fool of urself.

u posted verses which either proved my point on taqiyyah (its only used to save you from harm/death), and then just random arbitrary verses about war or punishments against kuffar.

yet if i remember correctly your argument is us muslims are instructed to LIE to non muslims for any reason we want.... yet still no verse OR hadith on that.

its funny when someone so stupid tries to talk about something they know nothing about

Muruna - 'Blending in' by setting aside some practices of Islam or Sharia in order to advance others.

advance of course has a negative connotation here.

microwavedbeef
2016-12-15, 03:27 PM
lol u too scared to quote me ? u just want this thread to go away don't you before u make even more of a fool of urself.

u posted verses which either proved my point on taqiyyah (its only used to save you from harm/death), and then just random arbitrary verses about war or punishments against kuffar.

yet if i remember correctly your argument is us muslims are instructed to LIE to non muslims for any reason we want.... yet still no verse OR hadith on that.

its funny when someone so stupid tries to talk about something they know nothing about

Though not called Taqiyya by name, Muhammad clearly used deception when he signed a 10-year treaty with the Meccans that allowed him access to their city while he secretly prepared his own forces for a takeover. The unsuspecting residents were conquered in easy fashion after he broke the treaty two years later. Some of the people in the city who had trusted him at his word were executed.

microwavedbeef
2016-12-15, 03:30 PM
it doesn't say lie either. it doesn't have a 1:1 english translation. but since you're an arabic expert why don't you define it for us--also if you notice I used the word "deceive" when i spoke about it.

:jordan:

translation is much closer to "schemer" "plotter" or "conspiritor"

just lmao @planner.....like hes a "wedding planner"??? fuck outta here omega

you used planner, as is your job to lie (deceive) me because i am non muslim

thanks for proving my point. you sound worse than an SJW liberal using ad hominem calling me a moron and other grade school names....keep up that COPE boy

and i quoted u like 6 times in a row....is that sufficient enough?

Eddy_Pose
2016-12-15, 03:54 PM
where does the quran say that?



source that from the quran or the sunnah otherwise shut the fuck up

I think Shia are allowed to lie. It's called Taqiyya or some shit.

Notorious Street Fighter
2016-12-15, 04:00 PM
http://nowe.memy.pl/show/big/uploads/Post/93111/14766465779450.jpg



Current status of thread.

microwavedbeef just fired off six shots of pissening ments in a row.

Omega
2016-12-15, 04:31 PM
I think Shia are allowed to lie. It's called Taqiyya or some shit.

they're not allowed to but they just do it anyway, thats why they're rafidha scum

they also allow prostitution (mut'ah) which was outlawed by muhammad but because they don't accept sunni hadiths they just pretend that its allowed.

Omega
2016-12-15, 04:38 PM
Sahih Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).


Sahih Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered.


Kitman - Lying by omission. An example would be when Muslim apologists quote only a fragment of verse 5:32 (that if anyone kills "it shall be as if he had killed all mankind") while neglecting to mention that the rest of the verse (and the next) mandate murder in undefined cases of "corruption" and "mischief."

(Obama has done this BTW)

So these are all about war. It doesn't prove your point at all.

Again let me make this clear: no shit you can lie during war. what you gonna tell them your battle plans? are you a moron?


Muruna - 'Blending in' by setting aside some practices of Islam or Sharia in order to advance others.

advance of course has a negative connotation here.


Though not called Taqiyya by name, Muhammad clearly used deception when he signed a 10-year treaty with the Meccans that allowed him access to their city while he secretly prepared his own forces for a takeover. The unsuspecting residents were conquered in easy fashion after he broke the treaty two years later. Some of the people in the city who had trusted him at his word were executed.

Ummm try again sweetie

The Meccans attacked a group of Muslims which ended the treaty. In fact Islam emphasizes SO STRONGLY against breaking treaties... the prophet even said whoever harms a mu3aahid (someone you made a treaty with), that he will be their opponent on the day of judgement.

Anyway what ended the treaty and lead to the (((peaceful))) conquest of mecca was Bani Bakr attacking Bani Khuza'a. Look it up moron. Do some actual research.


translation is much closer to "schemer" "plotter" or "conspiritor"

just lmao @planner.....like hes a "wedding planner"??? fuck outta here omega

you used planner, as is your job to lie (deceive) me because i am non muslim

thanks for proving my point. you sound worse than an SJW liberal using ad hominem calling me a moron and other grade school names....keep up that COPE boy

and i quoted u like 6 times in a row....is that sufficient enough?

Lmao at you defining Arabic words despite NOT KNOWING ARABIC, and I'm the liar? give me the root of the fucking word, give me its related meanings, prove to me you know what it means, because I know what it means because I know its root.

I also DIDNT say it said planner, I quoted an official translation. AND IT STILL DOESN'T PROVE YOUR POINT


cliffs: this retard still hasn't posted ONE BIT OF EVIDENCE muslims can lie to non muslims under normal circumstances. he seems baffled at the idea of muslims lying to their enemies in combat

:jordan:

microwavedbeef
2016-12-15, 04:42 PM
So these are all about war. It doesn't prove your point at all.

Again let me make this clear: no shit you can lie during war. what you gonna tell them your battle plans? are you a moron?





Ummm try again sweetie

The Meccans attacked a group of Muslims which ended the treaty. In fact Islam emphasizes SO STRONGLY against breaking treaties... the prophet even said whoever harms a mu3aahid (someone you made a treaty with), that he will be their opponent on the day of judgement.

Anyway what ended the treaty and lead to the (((peaceful))) conquest of mecca was Bani Bakr attacking Bani Khuza'a. Look it up moron. Do some actual research.



Lmao at you defining Arabic words despite NOT KNOWING ARABIC, and I'm the liar? give me the root of the fucking word, give me its related meanings, prove to me you know what it means, because I know what it means because I know its root.

I also DIDNT say it said planner, I quoted an official translation. AND IT STILL DOESN'T PROVE YOUR POINT


cliffs: this retard still hasn't posted ONE BIT OF EVIDENCE muslims can lie to non muslims under normal circumstances. he seems baffled at the idea of muslims lying to their enemies in combat

:jordan:

they dont just lie in combat. ive quoted several passages that imply its ok to lie to non muslims in everyday life if its advantageous to them. its happening all over the world and people are getting sick of it. Brexit, America voting trump, Italy voting out its leader....germany&france will be next, as the rest of the world sees islam for what it is. a political ideology based on violience and deceit under the guise of religion. it will all be over soon boyo

cognitive dissonance / cope

just because you keep calling me retard and moron doesnt make you right...it just makes you an SJW/leftist cry baby

congrats, you are brown aids skrillex

Omega
2016-12-15, 04:44 PM
they dont just lie in combat. ive quoted several passages that imply its ok to lie to non muslims in everyday life if its advantageous to them. its happening all over the world and people are getting sick of it. Brexit, America voting trump, Italy voting out its leader....germany will be next, as the rest of the world sees islam for what it is. apolitical ideology based on violience and deceit.

cognitive dissonance / cope

just because you keep calling me retard and moron doesnt make you right...it just makes you an SJW/leftist cry baby

congrats, you are brown aids skrillex

Oh did you? Can you just quote one of those again I must have missed it.

sickening_sith_lord
2016-12-15, 04:44 PM
they're not allowed to but they just do it anyway, thats why they're rafidha scum

they also allow prostitution (mut'ah) which was outlawed by muhammad but because they don't accept sunni hadiths they just pretend that its allowed.

Legit question: so shia can lie? If so, I think that's what OP is talking about.

Omega
2016-12-15, 04:47 PM
Legit question: so shia can lie? If so, I think that's what OP is talking about.

Shia make up like 10% of Muslims, and the majority do not engage in this pseudo Taqiyyah anyway.

OP suggest that I personally (A sunni) engage in this "taqiyyah" because he can't cope with the fact that not a single person on this forum has been able to trash on Islam because I will just amog them with knowledge ... so as his cope mechanism he just wants to convince everyone that I'm just lying and distorting Islam to make its seem great (I can't imagine why I would be a Muslim if I had to lie about it to make it seem good lmao)

microwavedbeef
2016-12-15, 04:48 PM
Omega - honest question

Do you believe the Mohammad split the moon into two? or flew to heaven on a winged horse?

Omega
2016-12-15, 04:50 PM
Omega - honest question

Do you believe the Mohammad split the moon into two? or flew to heaven on a winged horse?

So instead of posting what I asked you to post you're attempting to trivialize Islam by posing a question that would (out of context) seem rather silly. This is an example of sophistry--ironic being that you're using deceptive techniques because you can't actually come to terms with how badly you were just wrecked.

I'll ask again pose that verse that said we can lie to non muslims in everyday life if its advantageous to us. Truthfully I'm just backing you into a corner here because I can post a retarded amount of evidence thats diametrically opposed to that claim.

microwavedbeef
2016-12-15, 04:51 PM
Shia make up like 10% of Muslims, and the majority do not engage in this pseudo Taqiyyah anyway.

OP suggest that I personally (A sunni) engage in this "taqiyyah" because he can't cope with the fact that not a single person on this forum has been able to trash on Islam because I will just amog them with knowledge ... so as his cope mechanism he just wants to convince everyone that I'm just lying and distorting Islam to make its seem great (I can't imagine why I would be a Muslim if I had to lie about it to make it seem good lmao)

more ad hominem

i have nothing against athiest, jews, hindus, buddhist etc. Im just calling a spade a spade. Islam is a hate group...maybe not everyone, but a % way to high...im thinking in the 30-60% are radicals...and by radicals i mean they believe in sharia law. their culture conflicts with the rest of the world and this needs to be dealt with swiftly.

sickening_sith_lord
2016-12-15, 04:51 PM
Shia make up like 10% of Muslims, and the majority do not engage in this pseudo Taqiyyah anyway.

OP suggest that I personally (A sunni) engage in this "taqiyyah" because he can't cope with the fact that not a single person on this forum has been able to trash on Islam because I will just amog them with knowledge ... so as his cope mechanism he just wants to convince everyone that I'm just lying and distorting Islam to make its seem great (I can't imagine why I would be a Muslim if I had to lie about it to make it seem good lmao)

Having lived near metro detroit/dearborn I have no problem with Muslims (and have many muslim friends). Some of the kindest people of all time. Have muslim friends in Paris and they had the best hospitality skills of all time as well.

microwavedbeef
2016-12-15, 04:53 PM
So instead of posting what I asked you to post you're attempting to trivialize Islam by posing a question that would (out of context) seem rather silly. This is an example of sophistry--ironic being that you're using deceptive techniques because you can't actually come to terms with how badly you were just wrecked.

I'll ask again pose that verse that said we can lie to non muslims in everyday life if its advantageous to us. Truthfully I'm just backing you into a corner here because I can post a retarded amount of evidence thats diametrically opposed to that claim.

ive answered about 5 times. im tired of looking it up.

why didnt you answer my question tho?
did he split the moon/fly away on a winged horse? yes or no answer is more than sufficient

Omega
2016-12-15, 04:54 PM
more ad hominem

i have nothing against athiest, jews, hindus, buddhist etc. Im just calling a spade a spade. Islam is a hate group...maybe not everyone, but a % way to high...im thinking in the 30-60% are radicals...and by radicals i mean they believe in sharia law. their culture conflicts with the rest of the world and this needs to be dealt with swiftly.

Let me explain to you how fallacious ad hominem arguments work because you seem out of ur depth here buddy

You can claim ad hominem if I use it in place of an argument

For example:
You make a rational claim to which I decide to smear your character and not address the claim at all.

If I call you a retard but fully address the claim, I may have insulted you but I've committed no fallacy. So saying "ad hominem" seems to be your way of weaseling out of addressing my counter points like the vile swine you are.

ZUZZBRAH
2016-12-15, 04:54 PM
I think Shia are allowed to lie. It's called Taqiyya or some shit.

I think Lebanese are allowed to lie, it's called being Lebanese. Actually it's an interfaith practice both Maronite and Muslim Lebs engage in.

Omega
2016-12-15, 04:54 PM
ive answered about 5 times. im tired of looking it up.

why didnt you answer my question tho?
did he split the moon/fly away on a winged horse? yes or no answer is more than sufficient

That's fine, I'm just asking to post it one more time. Call me stupid :) I just can't find it. After that I'll answer.

microwavedbeef
2016-12-15, 05:02 PM
Oh did you? Can you just quote one of those again I must have missed it.

“Whoever expresses disbelief in God after having accepted belief [will suffer greatly] – except him who is forced while his heart is still at peace in belief” (16:106)

“Let not the believers take unbelievers for their allies in preference to believers. Whoever does this has no connection with God, unless you but guard yourselves against them as a precaution.” (3:28) **this is the big one 3:28 and of course the passage obama quoted saying kill one man you kill humanity...but left out the next verse where is says "oh, unless they are non muslims...then killing them is ok" think its 5:33



face it buddy. Islam is a religion that preaches violence and intolerance. anyone with an iq above room temperature knows this. Im sorry you were brainwashed and are exhibiting a cognitive dissonance / false pride, but dont think for a second you will convince myself or anyone with half a brain otherwise.

You are a wolf, most are sheep, i am the shepard with an AR15. k pce out bi

microwavedbeef
2016-12-15, 05:07 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/
Omega lol just found this wonderful site. give it a look if you are truly confident in your faith.

Omega
2016-12-15, 05:27 PM
“Whoever expresses disbelief in God after having accepted belief [will suffer greatly] – except him who is forced while his heart is still at peace in belief” (16:106)

“Let not the believers take unbelievers for their allies in preference to believers. Whoever does this has no connection with God, unless you but guard yourselves against them as a precaution.” (3:28) **this is the big one 3:28 and of course the passage obama quoted saying kill one man you kill humanity...but left out the next verse where is says "oh, unless they are non muslims...then killing them is ok" think its 5:33



face it buddy. Islam is a religion that preaches violence and intolerance. anyone with an iq above room temperature knows this. Im sorry you were brainwashed and are exhibiting a cognitive dissonance / false pride, but dont think for a second you will convince myself or anyone with half a brain otherwise.

You are a wolf, most are sheep, i am the shepard with an AR15. k pce out bi


Both of those illustrate one concept. That it's okay to lie to a hostile non-Muslim if you fear for your life or safety. 3:28 says Ilaa an tataqoo minhum tuqqaah (Except if you fear them as a precaution) -- meaning you can pretend to like them if otherwise they would harm you.

Also this is a highly misinterpreted verse. Along with the others that say laa takhtakhidhu al yahood wa-nasaara awliya, we can be friends with non-Muslims but awliya means an ally or someone you become close or intimate with, and ofc this is also a general rule not a specific rule because in Islam men can marry christians or jews, and are obviously much more than friends with them so this is more of a general statement.

But yeah both of those verses only allow deception if you're explicitly in danger, so no it doesn't mean you can just lie to kuffar so that you can screw them or convert them or anything like that

you're clearly being disingenuous


https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/
Omega lol just found this wonderful site. give it a look if you are truly confident in your faith.

how is that supposed to rustle me lmao.. i'm a grown man who knows more about islam than the vast majority of muslims. believe it or not i don't talk out of my ass i actually know my religion inside and out. i spend all day reading quotes you clowns post here from anti-islamic sites, do i look rustled to you?

microwavedbeef
2016-12-15, 05:30 PM
do i look rustled to you?
http://www.fitmisc.net/forum/customavatars/avatar566_7.gif

Omega
2016-12-15, 05:31 PM
http://www.fitmisc.net/forum/customavatars/avatar566_7.gif

oh no boyo im so embarrassed !!!

lmao you've humiliated urself yet again faggot.

microwavedbeef
2016-12-15, 05:32 PM
oh no boyo im so embarrassed !!!

lmao you've humiliated urself yet again faggot.

lol got dayum i am under your skin.

im in your head...and im cooking eggs in your kitchen

can you respond to my other thread where i again made a fool out of you??

Omega
2016-12-15, 05:38 PM
lol got dayum i am under your skin.

im in your head...and im cooking eggs in your kitchen

can you respond to my other thread where i again made a fool out of you??

whats this "again" business

:jordan:

you were absolutely annihilated

microwavedbeef
2017-05-22, 01:57 AM
here is one of the first times i destroyed omega....its pretty comical if you boyos are bored

mew
2017-05-22, 02:08 AM
Do all sects of Islam follow the Hadiths?
Tbh the Koran is no worse than the Bible but some of the crap in the Hadiths is next level shit

hadith takes up bigger portion of islam faith than koran

microwavedbeef
2017-05-23, 04:16 PM
bump to see how Omega ignored hadiths/passages that dont fit his narrative.

cliff 1) he tried to change the word of Schemer/Plotter (as in Liar)

to Planner

Like allah is some sort of wedding planner....lmao

GrapefruitDP
2017-05-23, 04:20 PM
Omega why do you believe some mystical being created the universe

He has a very high IQ mate, just ask him
.. oh actually don't bother he'll tell you 5 times with a Jordan GIF if you dare challenge his religion of piss.

EDIT: and then claim he's "IQ Mogged you"

This is a guy who quite seriously debated whether or not Tren is halal.

microwavedbeef
2017-05-23, 04:25 PM
Omega - honest question

Do you believe the Mohammad split the moon into two? or flew to heaven on a winged horse?
MadSeason

:jordan:

microwavedbeef
2017-05-23, 04:25 PM
He has a very high IQ mate, just ask him
.. oh actually don't bother he'll tell you 5 times with a Jordan GIF if you dare challenge his religion of piss.

EDIT: and then claim he's "IQ Mogged you"

This is a guy who quite seriously debated whether or not Tren is halal.

:jordan:

:cage:

MadSeason
2017-05-25, 03:24 PM
MadSeason

:jordan:

He's such an imaginative young man. Reminds me of Andy Warhol. A fancy lad for sure.

BlahaClusterFuck
2017-05-25, 03:32 PM
IS OMEGA Unemployed or official Islam online warrior?

He is defending muslims left, right and centre - 24/7. Jordan gif + "tons" of relevant informations, quotes, links, etc!

Omega
2017-05-25, 03:41 PM
IS OMEGA Unemployed or official Islam online warrior?

He is defending muslims left, right and centre - 24/7. Jordan gif + "tons" of relevant informations, quotes, links, etc!

>I work online
>STEM grad, going to graduate school after gap semester
>Smarter than everyone in this thread combined.

BlahaClusterFuck
2017-05-25, 03:42 PM
>I work online
>STEM grad, going to graduate school after gap semester
>Smarter than everyone in this thread combined.

Shame You didn't mention Your superior physic.

Omega
2017-05-25, 03:45 PM
here is one of the first times i destroyed omega....its pretty comical if you boyos are bored


Cliffs of thread

Microwaved retard claims to know about taqqiyah
insinuates Muslims can lie to non-Muslims for self gain or to proselytize; an obvious cope or an attempt to dissuade people from listening to me because I destroy all his arguments (OH NO HES JUST LYING ITS ALL TAQIYYAH).

I ask microwaved homo for a SINGLE VERSE OR HADITH that suggests Muslims can lie OTHER THAN: fear for their lives, or to deceive combatants/enemies at a time of war

Microwavedmoron CANNOT do this, proceeds to say he "destroyed me"

Omega
2017-05-25, 03:46 PM
Shame You didn't mention Your superior physic.

i have a 3.8 sGPA

:jordan:

BlahaClusterFuck
2017-05-25, 03:48 PM
Cliffs of thread

Microwaved retard claims to know about taqqiyah
insinuates Muslims can lie to non-Muslims for self gain or to proselytize; an obvious cope or an attempt to dissuade people from listening to me because I destroy all his arguments (OH NO HES JUST LYING ITS ALL TAQIYYAH).

I ask microwaved homo for a SINGLE VERSE OR HADITH that suggests Muslims can lie OTHER THAN: fear for their lives, or to deceive combatants/enemies at a time of war

Microwavedmoron CANNOT do this, proceeds to say he "destroyed me"

Why do You call him gay? Is he 100% homosexual? I thought You have superior education, no need to do attacks on personal level. Let's stick to the issue, leave personal stuff behind.

Only we lowers, scum infidels can call You a cock sucking dirty sand monkey for lack of better arguments.

microwavedbeef
2017-05-25, 05:00 PM
http://i.imgur.com/Q6TBzsK.gifv
http://i.imgur.com/Q6TBzsK.gifv

Omega
2017-05-25, 05:01 PM
http://imgur.com/Q6TBzsK


me mogging omega ITT

>Strong embed
>Still haven't posted the verse or hadith that allows Muslims to lie barring the two exceptions (war, fear).

microwavedbeef
2017-05-25, 05:03 PM
hit the back arrow on this thread where i mog you with about 6 verses


you then decide to choose context and claim allah is a wedding planner

also: can you embd that for me

:jordan:

Omega
2017-05-25, 05:07 PM
hit the back arrow on this thread where i mog you with about 6 verses


you then decide to choose context and claim allah is a wedding planner

also: can you embd that for me

:jordan:

I'll embed it for you when you post a single verse or hadith you posted that proves your point.

I've been waiting all this time. SRS.

microwavedbeef
2017-05-25, 05:11 PM
I'll embed it for you when you post a single verse or hadith you posted that proves your point.

I've been waiting all this time. SRS.

agian hit the back arrow where i not only gave you several verses but used examples of where mohammad used this to kill a fucking poet he didnt like


keep your head in the sand shenron

Omega
2017-05-25, 05:43 PM
agian hit the back arrow where i not only gave you several verses but used examples of where mohammad used this to kill a fucking poet he didnt like


keep your head in the sand shenron

>Killed a poet he didn't like
>Poet was attempting to instigate war against Muslims


وقال محمد بن إسحاق : كان من حديث كعب بن الأشرف - وكان رجلا من طيئ ثم أحد بني نبهان ، وأمه من بني النضير - أنه لما بلغه الخبر عن مقتل أهل بدر حين قدم زيد بن حارثة ، وعبد الله بن رواحة قال : والله ، لئن كان محمد أصاب هؤلاء القوم ، لبطن الأرض خير من ظهرها . فلما تيقن عدو الله الخبر ، خرج إلى مكة فنزل على المطلب بن أبي وداعة بن صبيرة السهمي وعنده عاتكة بنت أبي العيص بن أمية بن عبد شمس بن عبد مناف فأنزلته وأكرمته ، وجعل يحرض على قتال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وينشد الأشعار ، ويندب من قتل من المشركين يوم بدر

Ibn Ishaaq: Ka'ab bin Al-Ashraf was a man from Ta'i, from the tribe Bani Nubhan and his mother was from Bani Nadir. When news came to him about the deaths of those during the battle of Badr from Zayd bin Haaritha and Abdallah bin Rowayha, he said: By God, if Muhammad struck down those people, it's better to be dead than alive. When this enemy of God heard the news, he left for Makkah and visited Al-Mutalib bin Abi Wada'ah bin Sabira Al-Sahmi whose daughter was so-and-so [...] they received him graciously--he [the poet] began inciting them to kill the messenger of Allah, and began reciting poetry about the polytheists who died on Badr.


Cliffs: Muhammad beat the Makkans at Badr (who chased his people, thinking it would be an easy victory), Ka'b bin Ashraf (innocent poet right?) left for Makkah to try to convince the Pagans to kill Muhammad -- BEARING IN MIND THE JEWS (BANI NADIR) MADE PEACE AGREEMENTS WITH MUHAMMAD, this BROKE that agreement.

Cliffs of Cliffs:
He was killed for trying to incite war against Muslims
Still falls under deceit for war

STILL WAITING FOR PROOF MUSLIMS CAN LIE TO NON MUSLIMS WITHOUT IT BEING FOR WAR OR FEAR.

Keep saying "hit the back button", because you know it aint there.

mew
2017-05-25, 10:38 PM
>I work online
>STEM grad, going to graduate school after gap semester
>Smarter than everyone in this thread combined.

false now that i'm here.

mew
2017-05-25, 10:51 PM
IS OMEGA Unemployed or official Islam online warrior?

He is defending muslims left, right and centre - 24/7. Jordan gif + "tons" of relevant informations, quotes, links, etc!

he's the exception to the usual muslim, and thinks his interpretation of their scripture is the same interpretation all the others have, including the ones who blow up innocents, srs.

microwavedbeef
2017-05-25, 10:58 PM
he's the exception to the usual muslim, and thinks his interpretation of their scripture is the same interpretation all the others have, including the ones who blow up innocents, srs.

blahaclusterfuck is legit autistic/mentally handicap and omega banned him

speaks volumes about his character

Omega
2017-05-25, 11:10 PM
he's the exception to the usual muslim, and thinks his interpretation of their scripture is the same interpretation all the others have, including the ones who blow up innocents, srs.

Lol at how you keep lying about me.

I don't think everyone has my interpretation. It's a fucking continuum, but it's not as stark as people like you think. I have a lot of experience with this stuff, more than I can get into on a public forum. The interpretation isn't the problem, they're [in general] not interpreting Islam in a wildly violent way, they feel they have a legitimate casus belli.

And there are also grey areas in war. Like the example of Israeli civilians--they all serve in the military, a portion of them are directly supporting or members of anti-Palestinian movements, many of them [illegally] win in court to get Palestinian families evicted from their homes so they can move in, which is happening in the west bank and East Jerusalem. It's not hard to see why Palestinians may see some Israeli civilian targets as legitimate without altering their interpretation of Islam -- because civilian status is irrelevant, it's combatant/supporter status.. if a person gives money to a group that terrorizes you, just because they're civilian, does that make them off limits as a military target?

mew
2017-05-25, 11:13 PM
Lol at how you keep lying about me.

I don't think everyone has my interpretation. It's a fucking continuum, but it's not as stark as people like you think. I have a lot of experience with this stuff, more than I can get into on a public forum. The interpretation isn't the problem, they're [in general] not interpreting Islam in a wildly violent way, they feel they have a legitimate casus belli.



and you just keep legitimizing it...?

how can you not see the irony in saying the interpretation is not wildly violent, and then qualifying that by saying "oh in cases when they have a legitimate grievance it becomes violent, but that's justified so it's okay."

microwavedbeef
2017-05-25, 11:19 PM
Brink -can you pull up more thread where omega lost so i could read through them? needs some lulz

Omega
2017-05-25, 11:20 PM
and you just keep legitimizing it...?

how can you not see the irony in saying the interpretation is not wildly violent, and then qualifying that by saying "oh in cases when they have a legitimate grievance it becomes violent, but that's justified so it's okay."

The Islamic interpretation is the same, some (very few in the grand scheme of things) have less intelligent ideas on legitimate targets because discerning that grey area isn't always obvious for some people.

What you seem to genuinely think (despite spending no time in Muslim countries, among Muslim communities, and an overall deficiency in Islamic education) is that there is a type of Muslim that reads the Quran and thinks it tells them to kill all infidels in the name of God, and the convert them all, and to spread Shariah.

I've pretty much NEVER met a Muslim who thinks that. In my life. Now you can think I'm lying but I would rather recommend you spend time researching and immersing yourself in something before having strong opinions on it.

Omega
2017-05-25, 11:23 PM
Brink -can you pull up more thread where omega lost so i could read through them? needs some lulz

You very clearly lost this argument lmao.

You still haven't given me what I asked for

inb4 check the previous page

mew
2017-05-25, 11:23 PM
The Islamic interpretation is the same, some (very few in the grand scheme of things) have less intelligent ideas on legitimate targets because discerning that grey area isn't always obvious for some people.

What you seem to genuinely think (despite spending no time in Muslim countries, among Muslim communities, and an overall deficiency in Islamic education) is that there is a type of Muslim that reads the Quran and thinks it tells them to kill all infidels in the name of God, and the convert them all, and to spread Shariah.

I've pretty much NEVER met a Muslim who thinks that. In my life. Now you can think I'm lying but I would rather recommend you spend time researching and immersing yourself in something before having strong opinions on it.

you're extrapolating too much

plus, too bad, the "very few in the grand scheme of things" are the ones who make headlines with what they do.

i am genuinely sorry that they are misrepresenting your religion of peace, srs.


(not srs)

microwavedbeef
2017-05-25, 11:24 PM
You very clearly lost this argument lmao.

You still haven't given me what I asked for

inb4 check the previous page

seems like you are the only one who thinks that way bruh

Omega
2017-05-25, 11:29 PM
you're extrapolating too much

plus, too bad, the "very few in the grand scheme of things" are the ones who make headlines with what they do.

i am genuinely sorry that they are misrepresenting your religion of peace, srs.

(not srs)

Lol you would be better suited listening to me so you can learn about the Muslim world. I'm not an apologist or a proselytizer but I do give the truth, some of which, trust me, Muslims would rather I not say.

Most Muslims much rather we dissociate from these other Muslims, tell the press they're misrepresenting our religion and are evil. Why? Because that's the easy way out. I'm rather saying, their interpretation of Islam isn't the problem, and in fact, the west must take their share of responsibility because there's two heads to this snake. If you bomb the middle east for 15 years, you will create a GENERATION of people who hold westerners IN GENERAL responsible for their government's actions because they feel they have no other recourse.

Omega
2017-05-25, 11:30 PM
seems like you are the only one who thinks that way bruh

Yeah because the forum is filled with alt-right nut-huggers. But I can objectively state (no opnion here), how you lost.

You didn't find a verse or hadith where you illustrated Muslims can lie in circumstances other than war, or fear of harm. That's a fact. And I welcome ANYONE other than you to point me in the direction where you posted something that fit that criteria. mew be my guest.

mew
2017-05-25, 11:32 PM
Lol you would be better suited listening to me so you can learn about the Muslim world. I'm not an apologist or a proselytizer but I do give the truth, some of which, trust me, Muslims would rather I not say.

Most Muslims much rather we dissociate from these other Muslims, tell the press they're misrepresenting our religion and are evil. Why? Because that's the easy way out. I'm rather saying, their interpretation of Islam isn't the problem, and in fact, the west must take their share of responsibility because there's two heads to this snake. If you bomb the middle east for 15 years, you will create a GENERATION of people who hold westerners IN GENERAL responsible for their government's actions because they feel they have no other recourse.

I am listening to you.

Problem is, you were born into it so you've got some inherent positive biases toward the faith despite your intellect.

My one and only real point still remains, and it's that islam makes it easier to justify violence for somebody attracted by the idea of it compared to other religions.

Omega
2017-05-25, 11:39 PM
I am listening to you.

Problem is, you were born into it so you've got some inherent positive biases toward the faith despite your intellect.

My one and only real point still remains, and it's that islam makes it easier to justify violence for somebody attracted by the idea of it compared to other religions.

I'm half white, the family that more-or-less raised me was Roman Catholic. I wasn't taught Arabic, I didn't know even the most basic Islamic phrases growing up. I could have gone in any direction. But from my early teens and on, I pursued knowledge on my own--albeit with some biases--but I had no one brainwashing me into a religion. I eventually grew up older, traveled, learned Arabic, met different communities of Muslims domestic and abroad, and gained my experiences from that.

I've never been shy to address a single topic on this forum, and I always make sure to address the points, rather than what my "opponents" do, where they make a claim, I provide a detailed explanation, and they either say "taqiyyah", or just bring up another point (failing to either concede or refute the previous point), it's a game of whack-a-mole essentially on this forum, probably due to a combination of members both, not wanting to educate themselves (stuck in their own biases), as well as in general poor debate skills (taking a course in logic is extremely helpful).

I mean just take this thread for example. Dopey microwavedbeef (who we both know, has NEVER read the Quran, let alone has education in Islam) makes a bold claim he found on one of his favorite anti-Islam sites that Muhammad ordered the killing of a poet "he didn't like", and the guy who killed him used deceptive tactics to lure him out and kill him ('proof' for Muslims using taqiyyah)

Despite that being an obvious use of deceit in a time of war/conflict, I still went through the fucking trouble of downloading Al Bidayah Wa-nihaaya by Ibn Kathir, finding a quote by Ibn Ishaaq on the store in question, translating it for the English only crowed here, and explaining how the character in question, broke a peace agreement, and was actively inciting war against Muslims.

Did he respond to me? No lmao.

microwavedbeef
2017-05-25, 11:46 PM
Yeah because the forum is filled with alt-right nut-huggers. But I can objectively state (no opnion here), how you lost.

You didn't find a verse or hadith where you illustrated Muslims can lie in circumstances other than war, or fear of harm. That's a fact. And I welcome ANYONE other than you to point me in the direction where you posted something that fit that criteria. mew be my guest.

found several vs you just chose to ignore/manipulate context.

and again, the fact you are half white changes nothing....it doesnt add validity to your clearly biased statements.

edit: FUAAAARK. just figured omega out fellas

omega is half arabic half italian. his mom raised him because his dad wasnt there for whatever reason...(al quada?)

He was always the outcast and his mothers family treated him poorly because hes half arab (mulignan). he was so pissed he decided to rebel and islam is the result. its all a reaction to his maternal grandparents not hugging him enough....SAD

Omega
2017-05-25, 11:46 PM
found several

THEN FUCKING POST THEM

Brink
2017-05-25, 11:49 PM
Brink -can you pull up more thread where omega lost so i could read through them? needs some lulz

For sure bro. There's one I'm lookin for one right now where I remember he failed to refute the main point the guy was making and if a good point was made about Islam in a negative way he'd just duck out by sayin "I never said this" Then it was brought up that there were passages in the koran that could be taken out of context to promote violence and Omega challenged him to post 1 then the guy posted 6 and then omega said that was too many and failed to refute any of them, lol.

Was that you?? Shit I think that might have been you bro. Anyways I'll keep looking and update when I find it. It was from a while ago back when I was just a lurker. I just remember it was the first time I'd ever seen omega completely fail to make a counterpoint and just let it go without refuting anything.

Omega
2017-05-25, 11:51 PM
For sure bro. There's one I'm lookin for one right now where I remember he failed to refute the main point the guy was making and if a good point was made about Islam in a negative way he'd just duck out by sayin "I never said this" Then it was brought up that there were passages in the koran that could be taken out of context to promote violence and Omega challenged him to post 1 then the guy posted 6 and then omega said that was too many and failed to refute any of them, lol.

Was that you?? Shit I think that might have been you bro. Anyways I'll keep looking and update when I find it. It was from a while ago back when I was just a lurker. I just remember it was the first time I'd ever seen omega completely fail to make a counterpoint and just let it go without refuting anything.

I'm almost positive I've explained all of those verses in multiple threads (verses of war). Feel free to post it when you find it. :)

Brink
2017-05-25, 11:52 PM
I am listening to you.

Problem is, you were born into it so you've got some inherent positive biases toward the faith despite your intellect.

My one and only real point still remains, and it's that islam makes it easier to justify violence for somebody attracted by the idea of it compared to other religions.

I agree with this 100%. That was one of the points made in this thread I'm trying to find about passages in the koran being taken out of context by people in the present to enable them to commit violent acts in the name of god.

microwavedbeef
2017-05-25, 11:52 PM
For sure bro. There's one I'm lookin for one right now where I remember he failed to refute the main point the guy was making and if a good point was made about Islam in a negative way he'd just duck out by sayin "I never said this" Then it was brought up that there were passages in the koran that could be taken out of context to promote violence and Omega challenged him to post 1 then the guy posted 6 and then omega said that was too many and failed to refute any of them, lol.

Was that you?? Shit I think that might have been you bro. Anyways I'll keep looking and update when I find it. It was from a while ago back when I was just a lurker. I just remember it was the first time I'd ever seen omega completely fail to make a counterpoint and just let it go without refuting anything.

maybe, but he deletes threads where he loses.

before my last ban i destroyed muhammad in a thread and now the thread is gone. i actually spent time doing research for it too. he didnt like that i had legit hadiths and quran vs that showed how hypocritical and comically low iq mohammad and his followers are.

o well

Omega
2017-05-25, 11:53 PM
maybe, but he deletes threads where he loses.

before my last ban i destroyed muhammad in a thread and now the thread is gone. i actually spent time doing research for it too. he didnt like that i had legit hadiths and quran vs that showed how hypocritical and comically low iq mohammad and his followers are.

o well

I've never lost so that's not true. Even this thread, again you lost. You didn't fulfill the requirement to prove your point.

You can't even admit it which is fucking pathetic.

microwavedbeef
2017-05-25, 11:55 PM
I've never lost so that's not true. Even this thread, again you lost. You didn't fulfill the requirement to prove your point.

You can't even admit it which is fucking pathetic.

you got crushed in this thread and it bothers you

hence your overly combative response
you are compensating

sorry moms family didnt accept you man. its not your fault. that was a dick move on their part. you were just a child, didnt deserve it

Omega
2017-05-25, 11:57 PM
you got crushed in this thread and it bothers you

hence your overly combative response
you are compensating

sorry moms family didnt accept you man. its not your fault. that was a dick move on their part. you were just a child, didnt deserve it

Can anyone in this thread tell me where microwavedbeef showed Muslims can lie to non-Muslims in times other than war/fear?

microwavedbeef
2017-05-26, 12:04 AM
Can anyone in this thread tell me where microwavedbeef showed Muslims can lie to non-Muslims in times other than war/fear?

again fag boi

quran 3:28 is where it starts

ill translate it for you and everyone

“Let not the believers (muslims in this case) take the unbelievers (christians, jews, hindus etc) for friends, or their companions instead for the believers : if someone does, then you have no contact with Allah [They do not represent islam anymore and can be killed (just lol, if you have a hindu friend you can be killed)]: unless muslims take precautions (lies), and plays fake(lies) (Guard yourselves from them) [Which means that muslims say that they are unbelievers (non-muslim’s) best friends when in fact they hate them ].

Ibn Kathir confirmed this by saying “muslims are allowed to show friendship outwardly, but never inwardly.”

THIS IS CALLED LYING YOU FUCKING MORON

microwavedbeef
2017-05-26, 12:07 AM
in arabic, describing Allah as the best cheater/schemer....not planner

ومكروا ومكر الله والله خير الماكرين

افامنوا مكر الله فلايامن مكر الله الا القوم الخاسرون

And they cheated/deceived and God cheated/deceived, and God (is) the best (of) the cheaters/deceivers

Qur’an 3:54

microwavedbeef
2017-05-26, 12:10 AM
more of muhammad lying/breaking oaths

Sahih Bukhari 3:49:857

In Sahih Bukhari we find narrations telling us Prophet Muhammad had said if he took an oath and later found something else better, he would do “what is better” and expiate his oath.

this is shown when he KILLS/MURDERS meccans after negotiating a peace treaty 2 years in



face it bro, you are wrong...and im not gonna quote the other 20 or so passages i found, its just asinine

microwavedbeef
2017-05-26, 12:11 AM
Sahih Bukhari 9:89:260
Since determining what is “better” is a very subjective evaluation, one can break any agreement with anyone at any time they choose to do so just based on one’s perception of what is “better”.


this sounds like you actually LULZ

microwavedbeef
2017-05-26, 12:14 AM
Muhammad declared, as a justification for murdering unarmed prisoners after offering them safe passage, “war is deceit” (see the Hadith collection of Bukhari, vol. 4, book 52, numbers 268–271). So during the negotiations of Oslo I and II, Arafat’s willingness to acquiesce to Israeli demands was merely his acting as a good Muslim warrior, using taqiyya, deceit in warfare, to put his enemy at a disadvantage.

once a peace treaty is made, its no longer war. so if you butcher people who are unarmed you are just a lying murderer...which is exactly what muhammad pig swine pedo was

Omega
2017-05-26, 12:18 AM
again fag boi

quran 3:28 is where it starts

ill translate it for you and everyone

“Let not the believers (muslims in this case) take the unbelievers (christians, jews, hindus etc) for friends, or their companions instead for the believers : if someone does, then you have no contact with Allah [They do not represent islam anymore and can be killed (just lol, if you have a hindu friend you can be killed)]: unless muslims take precautions (lies), and plays fake(lies) (Guard yourselves from them) [Which means that muslims say that they are unbelievers (non-muslim’s) best friends when in fact they hate them ].

Ibn Kathir confirmed this by saying “muslims are allowed to show friendship outwardly, but never inwardly.”

THIS IS CALLED LYING YOU FUCKING MORON

What the HELL was that?

Here's the real verse

3:28 لاَّ يَتَّخِذِ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ الْكَـفِرِينَ أَوْلِيَآءَ مِن دُونِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَمَن يَفْعَلْ ذَلِكَ فَلَيْسَ مِنَ اللَّهِ فِي شَىْءٍ إِلاَ أَن تَتَّقُواْ مِنْهُمْ تُقَـةً وَيُحَذِّرْكُمُ اللَّهُ نَفْسَهُ وَإِلَى اللَّهِ الْمَصِيرُ
Let not the believers take as allies unbelievers over the believers. Whoever does that has no connection to Allah, unless you fear them so you do it as a precaution; but Allah also warns you of his punishment, for Allah is almighty.

Someone explain to me how this doesn't fall into the category of:

Can anyone in this thread tell me where microwavedbeef showed Muslims can lie to non-Muslims in times other than war/fear?

microwavedbeef
2017-05-26, 12:18 AM
Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar."

Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..."
The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

Qur'an (2:225) (big one) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts"

Qur'an (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths"



also i brought up the word KITMAN....which is lying through omission.

muslims do this all of the time as well. its taught in your mosques

Omega
2017-05-26, 12:23 AM
in arabic, describing Allah as the best cheater/schemer....not planner

ومكروا ومكر الله والله خير الماكرين

افامنوا مكر الله فلايامن مكر الله الا القوم الخاسرون

And they cheated/deceived and God cheated/deceived, and God (is) the best (of) the cheaters/deceivers

Qur’an 3:54

This actually isn't even relevant to the thread because we're talking about Muslims lying to non-Muslims. I can prove you wrong linguistically but you'll just cry about not knowing Arabic (despite for some reason posting arabic... I'd love to see you try to read that)

ZUZZBRAH
2017-05-26, 12:23 AM
Muhammad declared, as a justification for murdering unarmed prisoners after offering them safe passage, “war is deceit” (see the Hadith collection of Bukhari, vol. 4, book 52, numbers 268–271). So during the negotiations of Oslo I and II, Arafat’s willingness to acquiesce to Israeli demands was merely his acting as a good Muslim warrior, using taqiyya, deceit in warfare, to put his enemy at a disadvantage.

once a peace treaty is made, its no longer war. so if you butcher people who are unarmed you are just a lying murderer...which is exactly what muhammad pig swine pedo was

:jew:

Cmon now we all know who lied at oslo

microwavedbeef
2017-05-26, 12:26 AM
What the HELL was that?

Here's the real verse

3:28 لاَّ يَتَّخِذِ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ الْكَـفِرِينَ أَوْلِيَآءَ مِن دُونِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَمَن يَفْعَلْ ذَلِكَ فَلَيْسَ مِنَ اللَّهِ فِي شَىْءٍ إِلاَ أَن تَتَّقُواْ مِنْهُمْ تُقَـةً وَيُحَذِّرْكُمُ اللَّهُ نَفْسَهُ وَإِلَى اللَّهِ الْمَصِيرُ
Let not the believers take as allies unbelievers over the believers. Whoever does that has no connection to Allah, unless you fear them so you do it as a precaution; but Allah also warns you of his punishment, for Allah is almighty.

Someone explain to me how this doesn't fall into the category of:

and this type of logic is why muslims in my OP lie.

again this is talking about lying about friendships, not when you are in danger.

muslims use this to lie

microwavedbeef
2017-05-26, 12:34 AM
sum it up: last post, try and understand this logic because everyone else here does.

Why would muslims pretend to be friendly (lie)? simple

the quran command muslims to fight those that dont believe in Allah.(quran 9:29 9:123 48:29)


Muslims are commanded to violently subjugate non muslims as shown in passages above. But sometimes Muslims arent in position to subjugate non muslims. What are they supposed to do then? Share their plans and say "we arent going to attack you now, but as soon as we get the chance we are going to kill you, rape your wives, kill the men"....NO, of course not...no country would let them in if they openly admitted this. SO allah commands them to PRETEND (LIE) to be friendly.

this is where systematic lying comes into play. The Quran PROVES muslims are trying to take over the world, convert everyone. And lying is OK to do this.

Allah and muhammad basically say "FIGHT THE UNBELIEVERS unless you cant fight them, and if you cant, deceive them so they are completely off guard when it is time to fight them"

Omega Brink mew MadSeason or whoever else cares.

so to refute your answer Cuckmega - no, 3:28 and all of the other verses i listed are not saying its ok to lie if in danger. they are implying its ok to lie to fulfill the ultimate goal of taking over the world. This is why the woman in my OP thinks its OK to lie like this....if you cant understand this then you are fucking dumber than blahaclusterfuck

Brink
2017-05-26, 12:37 AM
sum it up: last post, try and understand this logic because everyone else here does.

Why would muslims pretend to be friendly (lie)? simple

the quran command muslims to fight those that dont believe in Allah.(quran 9:29 9:123 48:29)


Muslims are commanded to violently subjugate non muslims as shown in passages above. But sometimes Muslims arent in position to subjugate non muslims. What are they supposed to do then? Share their plans and say "we arent going to attack you now, but as soon as we get the chance we are going to kill you, rape your wives, kill the men"....NO, of course not...no country would let them in if they openly admitted this. SO allah commands them to PRETEND (LIE) to be friendly.

this is where systematic lying comes into play. The Quran PROVES muslims are trying to take over the world, convert everyone. And lying is OK to do this.

Allah and muhammad basically say "FIGHT THE UNBELIEVERS unless you cant fight them, and if you cant, deceive them so they are completely off guard when it is time to fight them"

Omega Brink mew MadSeason or whoever else cares.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to microwavedbeef again.

Said beautifully.

mew
2017-05-26, 12:38 AM
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to microwavedbeef again.

Said beautifully.

me too, wtf.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to microwavedbeef again.

MadSeason
2017-05-26, 12:38 AM
Even though I don't agree with Omega and find his faith funny and actual Muslims disgusting for the most part I respect him for upholding his unpopular view so I can't shit on him too hard, what gets better mileage Omega a 2012 hybrid civic or a flying horse?

Mr. No Homo
2017-05-26, 12:40 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/
Omega lol just found this wonderful site. give it a look if you are truly confident in your faith.

hahahaha

Omega
2017-05-26, 12:49 AM
Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar."

Hadith is in general, not about non-Muslims (in fact probably geared more towards Muslims), as a general rule one of the exceptions to lying in general (a white lie) is if it gets people to resolve an issue which no consequence. Another exception is that you can lie to your wife, because bitches are crazy.

This is the closest thing you'll have for "proof", but in reality it's talking about things like domestic disputes and stuff like that. It's nothing to do with taqiyyah.


Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..."
The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.


You conveniently leave out the fact that the Pagans broke the pact to begin with. After the conquest of Mecca, the Pagans were given 4 months grace period, then told they could not idol worship at the Ka'aba anymore.


Qur'an (2:225) (big one) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts"

This verse says Allah doesn't hold you accountable for things you didn't mean when making an oath.


Qur'an (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths"


Lmao this is because Muhammad made an oath never to eat honey. The verse tells him it's wrong to do that.



also i brought up the word KITMAN....which is lying through omission.

muslims do this all of the time as well. its taught in your mosques

كتمان isn't an Islamic concept, it's an Arabic word. Only reference I found in hadith

استعينوا على إنجاح الحوائج بالكتمان فإن كل ذي نعمة محسود (Get help by having your needs met by being discreet (kitmaan) because everyone who is blessed, is envied).
Hadith is marked as fabricated/weak by majority of scholars.

Omega
2017-05-26, 12:53 AM
microwavedbeef

I just realized something... the word taqiyyah, itself is from the word ataqqa... (meaning to fear)

the word literally means in Arabic to lie out of fear

:jordan:

microwavedbeef
2017-05-26, 12:53 AM
microwavedbeef

I just realized something... the word taqiyyah, itself is from the word ataqqa... (meaning to fear)

the word literally means in Arabic to lie out of fear

:jordan:

sum it up: last post, try and understand this logic because everyone else here does.

Why would muslims pretend to be friendly (lie)? simple

the quran command muslims to fight those that dont believe in Allah.(quran 9:29 9:123 48:29)


Muslims are commanded to violently subjugate non muslims as shown in passages above. But sometimes Muslims arent in position to subjugate non muslims. What are they supposed to do then? Share their plans and say "we arent going to attack you now, but as soon as we get the chance we are going to kill you, rape your wives, kill the men"....NO, of course not...no country would let them in if they openly admitted this. SO allah commands them to PRETEND (LIE) to be friendly.

this is where systematic lying comes into play. The Quran PROVES muslims are trying to take over the world, convert everyone. And lying is OK to do this.

Allah and muhammad basically say "FIGHT THE UNBELIEVERS unless you cant fight them, and if you cant, deceive them so they are completely off guard when it is time to fight them"
Omega Brink mew MadSeason or whoever else cares.

so to refute your answer Cuckmega - no, 3:28 and all of the other verses i listed are not saying its ok to lie if in danger. they are implying its ok to lie to fulfill the ultimate goal of taking over the world. This is why the woman in my OP thinks its OK to lie like this....if you cant understand this then you are fucking dumber than blahaclusterfuck

Omega
2017-05-26, 12:58 AM
and this type of logic is why muslims in my OP lie.

again this is talking about lying about friendships, not when you are in danger.

muslims use this to lie

Awliya2 does not mean friend. It means allies. The reason for the verses like laa tatakhidhu al yahood wa-nasara awliya (do not take the christians and jews as allies) was because this was a tumultuous time for the Muslims when the mushrikeen, christians, and jews all conspired against Muhammad on various occasions. That's the context of these verses.

That's why it said: إِلاَ أَن تَتَّقُواْ مِنْهُمْ تُقَـةً (Except if you fear them, do it as a precaution). Meaning if you live among them (as many of the poorer Meccans did), then you can pretend to be their ally and on their side so they don't turn on you.

That's the actual context and interpretation of these verses. I've backed that up so many times.


sum it up: last post, try and understand this logic because everyone else here does.

Why would muslims pretend to be friendly (lie)? simple

the quran command muslims to fight those that dont believe in Allah.(quran 9:29 9:123 48:29)


Muslims are commanded to violently subjugate non muslims as shown in passages above. But sometimes Muslims arent in position to subjugate non muslims. What are they supposed to do then? Share their plans and say "we arent going to attack you now, but as soon as we get the chance we are going to kill you, rape your wives, kill the men"....NO, of course not...no country would let them in if they openly admitted this. SO allah commands them to PRETEND (LIE) to be friendly.

this is where systematic lying comes into play. The Quran PROVES muslims are trying to take over the world, convert everyone. And lying is OK to do this.

Allah and muhammad basically say "FIGHT THE UNBELIEVERS unless you cant fight them, and if you cant, deceive them so they are completely off guard when it is time to fight them"

Omega Brink mew MadSeason or whoever else cares.

so to refute your answer Cuckmega - no, 3:28 and all of the other verses i listed are not saying its ok to lie if in danger. they are implying its ok to lie to fulfill the ultimate goal of taking over the world. This is why the woman in my OP thinks its OK to lie like this....if you cant understand this then you are fucking dumber than blahaclusterfuck

With the above reply in place, in the proper context you're wrong.

First of all no Muslim reads the verses of war and thinks, "why, I must kill the non Muslims... but I can't so let me befriend them first then take over". I want to insert jordan gif, but like I said it's actually sad you believe this.

The verses especially in Surah 9, are to be read in their specific context. I can explain them if you want.

I debunked ALL your taqiyyah verses/hadiths. Every single one of them so this argument falls apart. THEY are NOT ALLOWED to deceive non believers, unless they are afraid of them or it's part of a battle plan.

That's it.

Period.

Omega
2017-05-26, 01:00 AM
sum it up: last post, try and understand this logic because everyone else here does.

I'm replying retard, you don't need to repost something because your crew of autists seemed to like it.

But what's your response to the actual linguistic aspect. Taqiyyah means to lie out of fear. As a word that's what it fucking means.

I didn't even catch onto that myself until just now.

http://www.almaany.com/ar/dict/ar-ar/%D8%AA%D9%82%D9%8A%D8%A9/

microwavedbeef
2017-05-26, 01:02 AM
I'm replying retard, you don't need to repost something because your crew of autists seemed to like it.

But what's your response to the actual linguistic aspect. Taqiyyah means to lie out of fear. As a word that's what it fucking means.

I didn't even catch onto that myself until just now.

http://www.almaany.com/ar/dict/ar-ar/%D8%AA%D9%82%D9%8A%D8%A9/

i honestly feel bad for you now. you are brainwashed. really no different than an SJW bernie supporter. no wonder nine loves u

creating another thread to explain how ridiculous muhammad was, and how ridic u have to be to believe that moron

Omega
2017-05-26, 01:07 AM
i honestly feel bad for you now. you are brainwashed. really no different than an SJW bernie supporter. no wonder nine loves u

creating another thread to explain how ridiculous muhammad was, and how ridic u have to be to believe that moron

Lol I literally refuted EVERYTHING you posted.

I also know why you post like half a dozen things to "prove" your point, because you know focusing on one thing will be a loss for you, so you try to flood the page with "proof" knowing no one's really going to look into it for themselves.

That's why you completely chopped up 3:28... Look at your "translation" vs mine

Mine
3:28 لاَّ يَتَّخِذِ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ الْكَـفِرِينَ أَوْلِيَآءَ مِن دُونِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَمَن يَفْعَلْ ذَلِكَ فَلَيْسَ مِنَ اللَّهِ فِي شَىْءٍ إِلاَ أَن تَتَّقُواْ مِنْهُمْ تُقَـةً وَيُحَذِّرْكُمُ اللَّهُ نَفْسَهُ وَإِلَى اللَّهِ الْمَصِيرُ
Let not the believers take as allies unbelievers over the believers. Whoever does that has no connection to Allah, unless you fear them so you do it as a precaution; but Allah also warns you of his punishment, for Allah is almighty.

Yours
“Let not the believers (muslims in this case) take the unbelievers (christians, jews, hindus etc) for friends, or their companions instead for the believers : if someone does, then you have no contact with Allah [They do not represent islam anymore and can be killed (just lol, if you have a hindu friend you can be killed)]: unless muslims take precautions ([[you omitted "fear" from this part]]) (lies), and plays fake(lies) (Guard yourselves from them) [Which means that muslims say that they are unbelievers (non-muslim’s) best friends when in fact they hate them ].

I've greyed out everything you added yourself.

Honestly pathetic. Anyone reading this knows who showed the real verse in the real context.

mew
2017-05-26, 02:30 AM
For sure bro. There's one I'm lookin for one right now where I remember he failed to refute the main point the guy was making and if a good point was made about Islam in a negative way he'd just duck out by sayin "I never said this" Then it was brought up that there were passages in the koran that could be taken out of context to promote violence and Omega challenged him to post 1 then the guy posted 6 and then omega said that was too many and failed to refute any of them, lol.


That all sounds eerily similar to my "Facts about Islam" thread...

mew
2017-05-26, 02:32 AM
Can anyone in this thread tell me where microwavedbeef showed Muslims can lie to non-Muslims in times other than war/fear?

LAWL what an all-encompassing qualifer.

brb in fear so can lie with impunity.

Omega
2017-05-26, 02:41 AM
LAWL what an all-encompassing qualifer.

brb in fear so can lie with impunity.

No, specifically if you fear serious bodily harm or death. Do you need more evidence?

قَال الْقُرْطُبِيُّ : وَالتَّقِيَّةُ لاَ تَحِل إِلاَّ مَعَ خَوْفِ الْقَتْل أَوِ الْقَطْعِ أَوِ الإْيذَاءِ الْعَظِيمِ ، وَلَمْ يُنْقَل مَا يُخَالِفُ ذَلِكَ فِيمَا نَعْلَمُ إِلاَّ مَا رُوِيَ عَنْ مُعَاذِ بْنِ جَبَلٍ مِنَ الصَّحَابَةِ ، وَمُجَاهِدٍ مِنَ التَّابِعِينَ
Al-Qurtubi said: Taqiyyah isn't permissible except if one fears death, or loss of a limb, or extreme harm, and there are no reports contrary as far as we know except for what was reported by Mu'adh ibn Jabal and Mujaahid from the Tabieen (second generation of Muslims)

** Muadh ibn Jabal believed taqiyyah was haram completely.


"LAWL"

Educator
2017-05-26, 04:47 AM
its called al Taqiyya- which basically means they HAVE to lie and deceive non muslims so they can hurt them later.

this "religion" requires its members to lie and be immoral. worse than the KKK really.

Actually, although it's found at almost every anti-islamic site, the Quran never mention this "Taqiyya" even once.

Omega
2017-05-26, 11:39 AM
mew why didn't you reply here?

You said something stupid and I proved you wrong. So you run away?

LAWL

mew
2017-05-26, 02:13 PM
mew why didn't you reply here?

You said something stupid and I proved you wrong. So you run away?

LAWL

Didn't see it.

What'd you prove wrong? I used your words, you literally said "except in fear", I posted about it, you put in more qualifiers.

(Tbh I doubt the ones drawn to violence will be as thorough in their understanding as you try to be)

mew
2017-05-26, 02:14 PM
Didn't fucking see it because some genius moved the thread here, lmao

;)

Omega
2017-05-26, 02:27 PM
Didn't see it.

What'd you prove wrong? I used your words, you literally said "except in fear", I posted about it, you put in more qualifiers.

(Tbh I doubt the ones drawn to violence will be as thorough in their understanding as you try to be)


Didn't fucking see it because some genius moved the thread here, lmao

;)

Ultimate fucking cope. If you read my posts instead of selectively reading you would see my "modifiers" were summarized cuz i needed to ask the quetsion fucking 10 times to get a reply. (i.e., my post here clarifies its used from fear of death/hard http://www.fitmisc.net/forum/showthread.php?116812-Religion-of-Deceit-Lying-Muslim-arrested-for-lying&p=1475864&viewfull=1#post1475864)

It's funny you CANNOT admit you, or microwavedbeef were wrong in this thread. Yet you parade around here like you're in anyway an intellectual.

Why didn't you call out microwaved beef for chopping up, erasing things, and adding things to 3:28?

mew
2017-05-26, 02:38 PM
Ultimate fucking cope. If you read my posts instead of selectively reading you would see my "modifiers" were summarized cuz i needed to ask the quetsion fucking 10 times to get a reply. (i.e., my post here clarifies its used from fear of death/hard http://www.fitmisc.net/forum/showthread.php?116812-Religion-of-Deceit-Lying-Muslim-arrested-for-lying&p=1475864&viewfull=1#post1475864)

It's funny you CANNOT admit you, or microwavedbeef were wrong in this thread. Yet you parade around here like you're in anyway an intellectual.

Why didn't you call out microwaved beef for chopping up, erasing things, and adding things to 3:28?

I'm not reading the passages because I don't know shit about them.

My only point still stands, easily justified violence, and I don't really know where you want to go past that.

Omega
2017-05-26, 02:40 PM
I'm not reading the passages because I don't know shit about them.

My only point still stands, easily justified violence, and I don't really know where you want to go past that.

funny because when he quotes verses/hadiths, with no arabic, shoddy translations, no/incorrect context, you're on his side... yet when i post them with full arabic,translations,context,scholarly interpretation... oh idk enough about them.

based on what I posted here... are you READY to admit, taqiyyah as an islamic concept, only applies when in fear of bodily harm or death?

قَال الْقُرْطُبِيُّ : وَالتَّقِيَّةُ لاَ تَحِل إِلاَّ مَعَ خَوْفِ الْقَتْل أَوِ الْقَطْعِ أَوِ الإْيذَاءِ الْعَظِيمِ ، وَلَمْ يُنْقَل مَا يُخَالِفُ ذَلِكَ فِيمَا نَعْلَمُ إِلاَّ مَا رُوِيَ عَنْ مُعَاذِ بْنِ جَبَلٍ مِنَ الصَّحَابَةِ ، وَمُجَاهِدٍ مِنَ التَّابِعِينَ
Al-Qurtubi said: Taqiyyah isn't permissible except if one fears death, or loss of a limb, or extreme harm, and there are no reports contrary as far as we know except for what was reported by Mu'adh ibn Jabal and Mujaahid from the Tabieen (second generation of Muslims)


Also noting that taqiyyah itself, means to conceal out of fear. (itaqqa means fear--same root)

can you admit that?

microwavedbeef
2017-05-26, 02:46 PM
funny because when he quotes verses/hadiths, with no arabic, shoddy translations, no/incorrect context, you're on his side... yet when i post them with full arabic,translations,context,scholarly interpretation... oh idk enough about them.

based on what I posted here... are you READY to admit, taqiyyah as an islamic concept, only applies when in fear of bodily harm or death?

قَال الْقُرْطُبِيُّ : وَالتَّقِيَّةُ لاَ تَحِل إِلاَّ مَعَ خَوْفِ الْقَتْل أَوِ الْقَطْعِ أَوِ الإْيذَاءِ الْعَظِيمِ ، وَلَمْ يُنْقَل مَا يُخَالِفُ ذَلِكَ فِيمَا نَعْلَمُ إِلاَّ مَا رُوِيَ عَنْ مُعَاذِ بْنِ جَبَلٍ مِنَ الصَّحَابَةِ ، وَمُجَاهِدٍ مِنَ التَّابِعِينَ
Al-Qurtubi said: Taqiyyah isn't permissible except if one fears death, or loss of a limb, or extreme harm, and there are no reports contrary as far as we know except for what was reported by Mu'adh ibn Jabal and Mujaahid from the Tabieen (second generation of Muslims)


Also noting that taqiyyah itself, means to conceal out of fear. (itaqqa means fear--same root)

can you admit that?

this is NOT what taqiyyah means

its what YOU take it to mean.

its better translated to lying for the benefit of islam. which means a muslim family surrounded by christians or athiests will fake smile so they can later attack them when its time....NOT because they actually fear bodily harm. its basically the "fear" of people around them being non muslim. you dont see this because of your clear bias

mew
2017-05-26, 02:52 PM
funny because when he quotes verses/hadiths, with no arabic, shoddy translations, no/incorrect context, you're on his side... yet when i post them with full arabic,translations,context,scholarly interpretation... oh idk enough about them.

based on what I posted here... are you READY to admit, taqiyyah as an islamic concept, only applies when in fear of bodily harm or death?

قَال الْقُرْطُبِيُّ : وَالتَّقِيَّةُ لاَ تَحِل إِلاَّ مَعَ خَوْفِ الْقَتْل أَوِ الْقَطْعِ أَوِ الإْيذَاءِ الْعَظِيمِ ، وَلَمْ يُنْقَل مَا يُخَالِفُ ذَلِكَ فِيمَا نَعْلَمُ إِلاَّ مَا رُوِيَ عَنْ مُعَاذِ بْنِ جَبَلٍ مِنَ الصَّحَابَةِ ، وَمُجَاهِدٍ مِنَ التَّابِعِينَ
Al-Qurtubi said: Taqiyyah isn't permissible except if one fears death, or loss of a limb, or extreme harm, and there are no reports contrary as far as we know except for what was reported by Mu'adh ibn Jabal and Mujaahid from the Tabieen (second generation of Muslims)


Also noting that taqiyyah itself, means to conceal out of fear. (itaqqa means fear--same root)

can you admit that?

I haven't read any of them.

Nice neg train

Omega
2017-05-26, 03:02 PM
this is NOT what taqiyyah means

its what YOU take it to mean.

its better translated to lying for the benefit of islam. which means a muslim family surrounded by christians or athiests will fake smile so they can later attack them when its time....NOT because they actually fear bodily harm. its basically the "fear" of people around them being non muslim. you dont see this because of your clear bias

I just posted proof from Al Qurtubi one of the MOST FAMOUS and RESPETED scholars of tafseer and hadith, where he EXPLICITLY states, its not permissible except under those conditions.

And YES it does mean that. I posted you the link to the arabic dictionary. Here I took out my own personal AR-EN dictionary, and looked it up for you
http://i.imgur.com/ECOcIET.jpg?1

Arabic goes by roots, the root is t-q-y, in the roots 8th verbal form (ataqa, yutaqqi) it means to fear. Taqiyyah is a nisba noun of this root.

It means to conceal out of FEAR.

edit: and see those other words like "taqwa", even though they roughly translate to pious, they really refer to piety out of fear from God punishment. Someone who has taqwa is mindful of the 3ithab allah (punishment)

Omega
2017-05-26, 03:04 PM
I haven't read any of them.

Nice neg train

Well I just showed you the evidence. So do you admit that much, instead of being a little fucking cheerleader why don't you read what I say instead of adding your worthless 2 cents every change you get

"OH BRB IM SCARED BRB IMPUNITY TO LIE"

:jordan:

go ahead let me see if you can even be slightly intellectually honest here. I gave all the evidence right there. What say you?

mew
2017-05-26, 03:05 PM
Well I just showed you the evidence. So do you admit that much, instead of being a little fucking cheerleader why don't you read what I say instead of adding your worthless 2 cents every change you get

"OH BRB IM SCARED BRB IMPUNITY TO LIE"

:jordan:

go ahead let me see if you can even be slightly intellectually honest here. I gave all the evidence right there. What say you?

You're talking about things above my pay grade and ignoring the only salient point.

Omega
2017-05-26, 03:09 PM
You're talking about things above my pay grade and ignoring the only salient point.

Oh for fucks sake. So you can't even admit that i proved sufficiently what taqiyyah really is. You can't even suggest that microwavedbeef used deceitful (ironic) tactics in this thread, which I CLEARLY illustrated with the 3:28 quote, here i'll show you again:


Mine
3:28 لاَّ يَتَّخِذِ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ الْكَـفِرِينَ أَوْلِيَآءَ مِن دُونِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَمَن يَفْعَلْ ذَلِكَ فَلَيْسَ مِنَ اللَّهِ فِي شَىْءٍ إِلاَ أَن تَتَّقُواْ مِنْهُمْ تُقَـةً وَيُحَذِّرْكُمُ اللَّهُ نَفْسَهُ وَإِلَى اللَّهِ الْمَصِيرُ
Let not the believers take as allies unbelievers over the believers. Whoever does that has no connection to Allah, unless you fear them so you do it as a precaution; but Allah also warns you of his punishment, for Allah is almighty.

Yours
“Let not the believers (muslims in this case) take the unbelievers (christians, jews, hindus etc) for friends, or their companions instead for the believers : if someone does, then you have no contact with Allah [They do not represent islam anymore and can be killed (just lol, if you have a hindu friend you can be killed)]: unless muslims take precautions ([[you omitted "fear" from this part]]) (lies), and plays fake(lies) (Guard yourselves from them) [Which means that muslims say that they are unbelievers (non-muslim’s) best friends when in fact they hate them ].

I've greyed out everything you added yourself.


No LAWL there right? all the nuthuggers seemed to disappear when i pointed out he absolutely eviscerated that verse and added stuff and took stuff out. Oh no you didn't want to comment on that.

microwavedbeef
2017-05-26, 03:12 PM
I just posted proof from Al Qurtubi one of the MOST FAMOUS and RESPETED scholars of tafseer and hadith, where he EXPLICITLY states, its not permissible except under those conditions.

And YES it does mean that. I posted you the link to the arabic dictionary. Here I took out my own personal AR-EN dictionary, and looked it up for you
http://i.imgur.com/ECOcIET.jpg?1

Arabic goes by roots, the root is t-q-y, in the roots 8th verbal form (ataqa, yutaqqi) it means to fear. Taqiyyah is a nisba noun of this root.

It means to conceal out of FEAR.

edit: and see those other words like "taqwa", even though they roughly translate to pious, they really refer to piety out of fear from God punishment. Someone who has taqwa is mindful of the 3ithab allah (punishment)

my point is proven by the actions of modern muslims all over the world

and its funny how you like to agree with scholars when you perceive they validate your point, but ignore them when they admit Muhammad is a cross dresser

mew
2017-05-26, 03:14 PM
Oh for fucks sake. So you can't even admit that i proved sufficiently what taqiyyah really is. You can't even suggest that microwavedbeef used deceitful (ironic) tactics in this thread, which I CLEARLY illustrated with the 3:28 quote, here i'll show you again:



No LAWL there right? all the nuthuggers seemed to disappear when i pointed out he absolutely eviscerated that verse and added stuff and took stuff out. Oh no you didn't want to comment on that.

Dude. You're not listening.

I haven't read a single post where you guys reference exact passages. You think I give a shit about the finer details of what the koran or hadith says. I don't.

I'm just looking at it from the outside, thirty-foot view.

Your religion makes it much easier to justify violence in the name of god for those attracted to the idea than any other one does.

The. End.

That's my only point, and it's not up for debate, since it's objectively true.

You and microwaved beef can circlejerk about the finer points and minute details, doesn't really matter to me. Practically, the only thing that matters is the point I've repeatedly made.

Omega
2017-05-26, 03:18 PM
my point is proven by the actions of modern muslims all over the world

and its funny how you like to agree with scholars when you perceive they validate your point, but ignore them when they admit Muhammad is a cross dresser

Scholars didn't say Muhammad cross dressed, and leave that for the other thread because you're not getting out of this.

It's not the authority of Al-Qurtubi, but also what he said, he said there are NO other reports of taqiyyah being permissible except in those criteria. He went on to cite "except for Mu'adh/Mujaahid", who BELIEVED taqiyyah was NEVER halal after the Muslims took mecca (minority opinion)

So among scholars two opinions exist:
1) its halal if you're in fear for ur life or something extreme
2) its never halal

(btw lying in war isn't use of taqiyyah, because its not lying out of fear)

and it being proved by Muslims was not your argument in this thread -- your argument was ISLAM ALLOWS MUSLIMS TO LIE TO NON MUSLIMS under all circumstances (like i was to make you convert, or i want something from you, etc.) YOU PROVIDED 0 EVIDENCE.

Omega
2017-05-26, 03:20 PM
Dude. You're not listening.

I haven't read a single post where you guys reference exact passages. You think I give a shit about the finer details of what the koran or hadith says. I don't.

I'm just looking at it from the outside, thirty-foot view.

Your religion makes it much easier to justify violence in the name of god for those attracted to the idea than any other one does.

The. End.

That's my only point, and it's not up for debate, since it's objectively true.

You and microwaved beef can circlejerk about the finer points and minute details, doesn't really matter to me. Practically, the only thing that matters is the point I've repeatedly made.

Yet you came into this thread you dumb fuck and tried to take your cheap shots, so i'm saying back them up asshole. I see those snide remarks you make fuck face. Fuck is this shit?


That all sounds eerily similar to my "Facts about Islam" thread...

When we BOTH know I even took the time to PROVE my issues with just cut/pasting social studies, and even PROVED using your own DATA that YOU DIDNT EVEN LOOK THROUGH, disproved your OWN POINT.

atleast microwavedfag sticks by his (albeit retarded) points and tries his hardest to defend them. you come in here like a little bitch boy cheer leader, make remarks suggesting muslims can lie if they're just "scared" (wink wink, like a technicality) then you PUSS out when confronted with evidence against that

don't even have the decency to say, "oh i didn't know/realize that" when i showed you direct evidence against what you said

microwavedbeef
2017-05-26, 03:23 PM
Scholars didn't say Muhammad cross dressed, and leave that for the other thread because you're not getting out of this.

It's not the authority of Al-Qurtubi, but also what he said, he said there are NO other reports of taqiyyah being permissible except in those criteria. He went on to cite "except for Mu'adh/Mujaahid", who BELIEVED taqiyyah was NEVER halal after the Muslims took mecca (minority opinion)

So among scholars two opinions exist:
1) its halal if you're in fear for ur life or something extreme
2) its never halal

(btw lying in war isn't use of taqiyyah, because its not lying out of fear)

and it being proved by Muslims was not your argument in this thread -- your argument was ISLAM ALLOWS MUSLIMS TO LIE TO NON MUSLIMS under all circumstances (like i was to make you convert, or i want something from you, etc.) YOU PROVIDED 0 EVIDENCE.

i provided a ton of evidence you just chose to ignore/change words and context

too many verses encourage muslims to lie to non muslims, and their ACTIONS support this claim.

mew
2017-05-26, 03:26 PM
Yet you came into this thread you dumb fuck and tried to take your cheap shots, so i'm saying back them up asshole. I see those snide remarks you make fuck face. Fuck is this shit?



When we BOTH know I even took the time to PROVE my issues with just cut/pasting social studies, and even PROVED using your own DATA that YOU DIDNT EVEN LOOK THROUGH, disproved your OWN POINT.

atleast microwavedfag sticks by his (albeit retarded) points and tries his hardest to defend them. you come in here like a little bitch boy cheer leader, make remarks suggesting muslims can lie if they're just "scared" (wink wink, like a technicality) then you PUSS out when confronted with evidence against that

don't even have the decency to say, "oh i didn't know/realize that" when i showed you direct evidence against what you said

Oh jeez, you sound triggered.

Okay, point by point:

1. What are my cheap shots? that islam makes justification of violence easy? sorry, but that's the only thing that counts for somebody who isn't religious.

2. What are my snide remarks? Don't think they're as snide as your secret little reputation comments.

3. So muslims, as a whole, don't believe more in justified terrorism and suicide bombings, compared to other people?

4. My "suggestion" about muslims lying if they're scared was derived entirely from your post about it. You said "except in fear/war." You didn't back it up with anything else. Since you're the resident expert here, I took it at your word.

...or did you not want me to listen?

5. I've repeatedly said I don't know enough about islam to debate the finer points with you or microwaved beef. What am I doing that's cheerleading? You guys quote passages, I skim past them, idgaf. When I learn something myself, I will, but I don't have the knowledge now.


And for fuck's sake man, nobody here is denying my only worthwhile point, not even you. So congrats, you're complicit in a shit religion. What more do you want?

Omega
2017-05-26, 03:27 PM
i provided a ton of evidence you just chose to ignore/change words and context

too many verses encourage muslims to lie to non muslims, and their ACTIONS support this claim.

i changed words???

:cage2:

AMAZING cope. lets go back to how you ERASED "FEAR" OUT OF 3:28

الا ان تتقوا منهم

this should be EASY because i just posted the EN-AR dictionary result for this word. Here's an Arabic lesson

Ila (except) an (that) tataqoo (you [pl] fear) minhim ([from] them)

not to mention how much you had to ADD to the verse to try desperately to make it match what you wanted.

mew
2017-05-26, 03:28 PM
too many verses encourage muslims to lie to non muslims, and their ACTIONS support this claim.

and the variety of social sciences studies point to muslim beliefs supporting violence.

but smh, obviously I'm wrong, right Omega? To know for sure I'd have to go through each of those studies one by one, being extra facetious and pedantic, otherwise my understanding of the general trend is so flawed as to be meaningless. Obviously.

Omega
2017-05-26, 03:30 PM
Oh jeez, you sound triggered.

Okay, point by point:

1. What are my cheap shots? that islam makes justification of violence easy? sorry, but that's the only thing that counts for somebody who isn't religious.

2. What are my snide remarks? Don't think they're as snide as your secret little reputation comments.

3. So muslims, as a whole, don't believe more in justified terrorism and suicide bombings, compared to other people?

4. My "suggestion" about muslims lying if they're scared was derived entirely from your post about it. You said "except in fear/war." You didn't back it up with anything else. Since you're the resident expert here, I took it at your word.

...or did you not want me to listen?

5. I've repeatedly said I don't know enough about islam to debate the finer points with you or microwaved beef. What am I doing that's cheerleading? You guys quote passages, I skim past them, idgaf. When I learn something myself, I will, but I don't have the knowledge now.

And for fuck's sake man, nobody here is denying my only worthwhile point, not even you. So congrats, you're complicit in a shit religion. What more do you want?

Oh so you did accept my evidence that taqiyyah is only used in times of fear then? (and no its not an all encompassing modifier)?

I just want to get this on record lol.

BTW you can keep trying to shift the subject but it's not going to work. we have discussed your point that you claim i'm not addressing, but im not so weak minded to let you divert the subject in a pathetic attempt to divert attention from the real issue in this thread. If you haven't realized in other threads im debating other things, but in this thread we're gonna clear up the taqiyyah bullshit because microwavedfaggot and friends, ROUTINELY try to discredit what I say (i.e., anything positive about Islam) by saying "muslims use taqiyyah to lie about their religion to get people to like them"

I've proved again, unequivocally here, that is FALSE.

Omega
2017-05-26, 03:34 PM
and the variety of social sciences studies point to muslim beliefs supporting violence.

but smh, obviously I'm wrong, right Omega? To know for sure I'd have to go through each of those studies one by one, being extra facetious and pedantic, otherwise my understanding of the general trend is so flawed as to be meaningless. Obviously.

see these retarded types of comments.

>implying you agree with him that too many verses encourage lying to non-muslims (obvious lie from all the evidence in this thread)

>implying you werent already shown the break down of those stats

often/sometimes justified combined into one %
open ended modifiers in survey question "i.e., in defense of Islam"
the fact that a MAJORITY of muslims in a majority of countries said they are rarely or never justified
the fact that TRENDS SHOW lower support for suicide bombings, and also show negative support overall for alqeada, taliban, hezbollah

yea we didn't go over any of that

:ok:

mew
2017-05-26, 03:44 PM
Oh so you did accept my evidence that taqiyyah is only used in times of fear then? (and no its not an all encompassing modifier)?

I just want to get this on record lol.

BTW you can keep trying to shift the subject but it's not going to work. we have discussed your point that you claim i'm not addressing, but im not so weak minded to let you divert the subject in a pathetic attempt to divert attention from the real issue in this thread. If you haven't realized in other threads im debating other things, but in this thread we're gonna clear up the taqiyyah bullshit because microwavedfaggot and friends, ROUTINELY try to discredit what I say (i.e., anything positive about Islam) by saying "muslims use taqiyyah to lie about their religion to get people to like them"

I've proved again, unequivocally here, that is FALSE.

Great. So what? Doesn't matter to me. Islam justified violence much more readily than any other religion or cult.

That's the final outcome, the damn scripture doesn't matter, I'm not a religious scholar.

mew
2017-05-26, 03:44 PM
s
>implying you agree with him that too many verses encourage lying to non-muslims (obvious lie from all the evidence in this thread)


Quote me on that.

Omega
2017-05-26, 03:45 PM
Great. So what? Doesn't matter to me. Islam justified violence much more readily than any other religion or cult.

That's the final outcome, the damn scripture doesn't matter, I'm not a religious scholar.

>Hasn't read Quran
>Claims Islam justifies violence

How about this, read a Sirah, and come back to me about violence in Islam. I can recommend you and easy to read English one.

Quote me on that.

Do you know what "imply" means?

mew
2017-05-26, 03:47 PM
often/sometimes justified combined into one %
open ended modifiers in survey question "i.e., in defense of Islam"
the fact that a MAJORITY of muslims in a majority of countries said they are rarely or never justified
the fact that TRENDS SHOW lower support for suicide bombings, and also show negative support overall for alqeada, taliban, hezbollah


What is this garbage?

Point by point:

1. Often and sometimes still = "IS JUSTIFIED"
2. Modifiers like "in defense of Islam" make not one iota of difference. In fact they prove my damn point. Islam readily justified violence.
3. And yet a larger larger percentage of muslims say they ARE justfieid, compared to any other race. THAT's the fucking comparison, dolt.
4. Oh wow, "lower". Let's all give them the nobel peace prize, then. Smfh, the support is still there, and more than in any other religion.

mew
2017-05-26, 03:49 PM
Do you know what "imply" means?

Quote me where I make those implications.


>Hasn't read Quran
>Claims Islam justifies violence
How about this, read a Sirah, and come back to me about violence in Islam. I can recommend you and easy to read English one.

How about I watch that video about Islam I keep meaning to get to, and then get back to you.

But wtf man, consistent terror attacks in the western world propagated by followers on Islam isn't enough to show that your religion more easily justifies violence than others? Ooooookay then.

Omega
2017-05-26, 09:27 PM
Quote me where I make those implications.

How about I watch that video about Islam I keep meaning to get to, and then get back to you.

But wtf man, consistent terror attacks in the western world propagated by followers on Islam isn't enough to show that your religion more easily justifies violence than others? Ooooookay then.

Quote Originally Posted by microwavedbeef View Post
too many verses encourage muslims to lie to non muslims, and their ACTIONS support this claim.


Your reply: and the variety of social sciences studies point to muslim beliefs supporting violence.

(saying "and", as if you're agreeing with and then adding to his statement). That's called an implication.

Omega
2017-05-26, 09:28 PM
What is this garbage?

Point by point:

1. Often and sometimes still = "IS JUSTIFIED"
2. Modifiers like "in defense of Islam" make not one iota of difference. In fact they prove my damn point. Islam readily justified violence.
3. And yet a larger larger percentage of muslims say they ARE justfieid, compared to any other race. THAT's the fucking comparison, dolt.
4. Oh wow, "lower". Let's all give them the nobel peace prize, then. Smfh, the support is still there, and more than in any other religion.

This still goes to the point of how suicide bombing is directly terrorism. How suicide bombing a military base is terrorism when an airstrike isnt. I don't think you bothered to tell me the distinction before

(probably because you know ur wrong)

Uneducationed
2017-05-27, 02:28 AM
Quote me where I make those implications.



How about I watch that video about Islam I keep meaning to get to, and then get back to you.

But wtf man, consistent terror attacks in the western world propagated by followers on Islam isn't enough to show that your religion more easily justifies violence than others? Ooooookay then.

lol this retard's still running his mouth after I showed how stupid he is the other day

microwavedbeef
2017-07-01, 05:31 PM
me too, wtf.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to microwavedbeef again.

mew

seems like u agreed with me here? how much is omega paying you now?

microwavedbeef
2017-07-01, 05:33 PM
LAWL what an all-encompassing qualifer.

brb in fear so can lie with impunity.

this, you got it here. fear is VERY subjective.

microwavedbeef
2017-07-01, 05:34 PM
Oh jeez, you sound triggered.

Okay, point by point:

1. What are my cheap shots? that islam makes justification of violence easy? sorry, but that's the only thing that counts for somebody who isn't religious.

2. What are my snide remarks? Don't think they're as snide as your secret little reputation comments.

3. So muslims, as a whole, don't believe more in justified terrorism and suicide bombings, compared to other people?

4. My "suggestion" about muslims lying if they're scared was derived entirely from your post about it. You said "except in fear/war." You didn't back it up with anything else. Since you're the resident expert here, I took it at your word.

...or did you not want me to listen?

5. I've repeatedly said I don't know enough about islam to debate the finer points with you or microwaved beef. What am I doing that's cheerleading? You guys quote passages, I skim past them, idgaf. When I learn something myself, I will, but I don't have the knowledge now.


And for fuck's sake man, nobody here is denying my only worthwhile point, not even you. So congrats, you're complicit in a shit religion. What more do you want?

agreed mew. did omega hack your shit in the last month lmao

mew
2017-07-01, 05:37 PM
mew

seems like u agreed with me here? how much is omega paying you now?

yes i agreed at the start, then i learned more, figured stuff out, and now have a much more nuanced viewpoint

ie, inherently your arguments are unfaithful and weak


this, you got it here. fear is VERY subjective.

no i had it wrong

it wasn't fear, it was direct fear of death.

so like you're being tortured and they're about to chop your head off unless you denounce, so you save yourself by doing the logical thing

(imagine a religion that forbade that)

mew
2017-07-01, 05:39 PM
agreed mew. did omega hack your shit in the last month lmao

no man i just learned more

all my points were based on tv muzzies, ie, how they're represented in the media and portrayed in the west

the truth is far removed from that

it's called being objective. i'm not unmovable here. somebody presents a coherent and logical argument and if it rings true i change my position.

i have absolutely no problem with that.

i'm also a guy who's always very much committed/assertive/passionate/loud about my viewpoints. i have full conviction until something comes up that changes my way of thinking, due to information i simply didn't have or consider before.

then i have no problem switching sides because there's no dogma holding me down.

microwavedbeef
2017-07-01, 05:40 PM
yes i agreed at the start, then i learned more, figured stuff out, and now have a much more nuanced viewpoint

ie, inherently your arguments are unfaithful and weak



no i had it wrong

it wasn't fear, it was direct fear of death.

so like you're being tortured and they're about to chop your head off unless you denounce, so you save yourself by doing the logical thing

(imagine a religion that forbade that)

this is not what it means boyo...you been taqiya'd lol

mew
2017-07-01, 05:42 PM
this is not what it means boyo...you been taqiya'd lol
Omega clarify for us what it means

Omega
2017-07-01, 05:51 PM
this is not what it means boyo...you been taqiya'd lol

BRUTAL COPE PILL (((ARYANS STAY OUT)))

microwavedbeef
2017-07-01, 05:55 PM
BRUTAL COPE PILL (((ARYANS STAY OUT)))

now you are typing in bold and larger font to imply its a joke when in reality you werent joking before

i see right through your bs boyo