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  1. #101
    Lil' Flinch Lil Flinch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medically Fat View Post
    But I mean, it's a contradictory belief to say that morals are even possible without objective morality. My belief is that morals exist and then the logical conclusion is that morals are objective. But I worded it wrong earlier. Morality is the notion that things ought to be a certain way, and it's logically not possible that things should be in a way that is contradictory that. So morality must be objective if it says what things ought to be like. So the belief is in morals, the logical conclusion is that they are objective.

    Unless you disagree with the axiom that morals tells us what things ought be like.
    I jut think that people can have different morals for personal shit. If you don’t want to associate with gay people that’s cool but why do we all have to think the same way? Especially when the Bible contradicts itself and gets things wrong.

    By how would sexual freedom yin society? I mean that’s not even in my top 10000000 for things that would

  2. #102
    Lil' Flinch Lil Flinch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medically Fat View Post
    Well, there's a reason the social sciences are wrong about 80% of the time in their predictions. Because this is really hard shit to figure out. In short, it creates the breakdown of the family and the family is the bedrock of civilization. But it would be too long to get into, so read the book if ure interested.
    They’re maybe more parents that raise kids who aren’t together but I don’t see how that would lead to bloodshed. Seems like a stretch to me but yeah just totally different views

  3. #103
    Senior Member Medically Fat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lil Flinch View Post
    Theyíre maybe more parents that raise kids who arenít together but I donít see how that would lead to bloodshed. Seems like a stretch to me but yeah just totally different views
    Well I mean, this is an empirical claim so this is not about axioms really. But I can understand that you don't have the desire to read a 600 page book just to risk proving me wrong without discovering something new for yourself. I dunno if I would do that, as well.

  4. #104
    Lil' Flinch Lil Flinch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medically Fat View Post
    Well I mean, this is an empirical claim so this is not about axioms really. But I can understand that you don't have the desire to read a 600 page book just to risk proving me wrong without discovering something new for yourself. I dunno if I would do that, as well.
    Well i can I get chem real cliffs? I mean a single mom lives across the street should I kill her before it’s too late?

  5. #105
    Senior Member Medically Fat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lil Flinch View Post
    Well i can I get chem real cliffs? I mean a single mom lives across the street should I kill her before it’s too late?
    Well, the biggest cliff is that there is a positive correlation between the sexual restraint of a society and the cultural achievement of that society - Across pretty much all known civilizations. And those other cliffs that I mentioned from wikipedia.

    The cultural conditions of a society rise in exact proportion to the imposement of pre-nuptial and post-nuptial restraints. The whole of human history does not contain a single instance of a group becoming civilized unless it has been absolutely monogamous. Nor is there any group that retained its culture after adopting less sexual restraint. Unwin's theory is that because of this controlled sexuality, men will, in general, put in more energy towards civilization building. And this energy is used in two ways, productively and expansively. Although he literally thought this was because of men technically having more energy from abstinence, I dunno if I agree with that lol.

    I mean, even if Unwins theory is incomplete. it appears very very strongly according to the findings that sexual restraint is the cause of cultural achievement, so it's a good read to confirm that its true because that information is useful as fuck. I have some own thoughts which I could share if you wanna hear those, after I get back from work tho etc.
    Last edited by Medically Fat; 2018-01-14 at 11:53 PM.

  6. #106
    SUAF BrotherBlaha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medically Fat View Post
    shill scum
    this.

    and a warmonger on top of that
    Disclaimer: My posts are a work of fiction. Names, characters, businesses, places, events and incidents are either the products of my imagination or used in a fictitious manner. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental. I wish you a MENTiful day!

  7. #107
    Lil' Flinch Lil Flinch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medically Fat View Post
    Well, the biggest cliff is that there is a positive correlation between the sexual restraint of a society and the cultural achievement of that society - Across pretty much all known civilizations. And those other cliffs that I mentioned from wikipedia.

    The cultural conditions of a society rise in exact proportion to the imposement of pre-nuptial and post-nuptial restraints. The whole of human history does not contain a single instance of a group becoming civilized unless it has been absolutely monogamous. Nor is there any group that retained its culture after adopting less sexual restraint. Unwin's theory is that because of this controlled sexuality, men will, in general, put in more energy towards civilization building. And this energy is used in two ways, productively and expansively. Although he literally thought this was because of men technically having more energy from abstinence, I dunno if I agree with that lol.

    I mean, even if Unwins theory is incomplete. it appears very very strongly according to the findings that sexual restraint is the cause of cultural achievement, so it's a good read to confirm that its true because that information is useful as fuck. I have some own thoughts which I could share if you wanna hear those, after I get back from work tho etc.
    I feel like this has to do way more with just the time in history because as we go along it’s becoming more socially acceptable. I don’t think that that will be the reason for bloodshed but there are definitely a few reasons

  8. #108
    Lil' Flinch Lil Flinch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrotherBlaha View Post
    this.

    and a warmonger on top of that
    And Donald Trump is such a passive guy.

  9. #109
    SUAF BrotherBlaha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lil Flinch View Post
    And Donald Trump is such a passive guy.

    IDGF about politics anymore

    but what kylesa and his/her ilk want is war with Russia, that's their end game

    so unless you wanna die somewhere in Ukraine after being drafted, you shouldn't be on the same team, just sayin'
    Disclaimer: My posts are a work of fiction. Names, characters, businesses, places, events and incidents are either the products of my imagination or used in a fictitious manner. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental. I wish you a MENTiful day!

  10. #110
    Senior Member Medically Fat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lil Flinch View Post
    I feel like this has to do way more with just the time in history because as we go along it’s becoming more socially acceptable. I don’t think that that will be the reason for bloodshed but there are definitely a few reasons
    But the cycle of things becoming more socially acceptable repeats itself, it's not like a lot of the things we see now hasn't happened before. Or do you mean that in each civilization it becomes more socially acceptable with time, and not that it's just a linear increase since the dawn of civilization to today?

    But the thing that unwin noted is that the cultural conditions of a society rises in exact proportion to the imposement of sexual constraints. So, the social acceptance diminishes in time, sometimes. The diminishment seems to lead to greater cultural achievement. Or it's that greater cultural achievement leads to more sexual restraint, I don't see how that makes sense though.
    Last edited by Medically Fat; 2018-01-16 at 06:02 PM.

  11. #111
    Senior Member Medically Fat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lil Flinch View Post
    I jut think that people can have different morals for personal shit. If you don’t want to associate with gay people that’s cool but why do we all have to think the same way? Especially when the Bible contradicts itself and gets things wrong.

    By how would sexual freedom yin society? I mean that’s not even in my top 10000000 for things that would
    I haven't said that we need to think the same about all things though. I've said that there are some fundamental things that we need to agree on. A higher percentage of the population being religious would help with that. An example of that would be free speech - a value borne from religion. Without free speech, we can't even talk to each other, and the next step is violence. Another value is speaking the truth - again, borne from religion. Even the the idea that human life has inherent value is borne from religion.
    I advocate promoting religion for the masses because, well, for example, these things are increasingly not agreed upon anymore. Academia is rife with people who don't agree on the value of having freedom of speech. I think earlier you misunderstood/I explained poorly the freedom thing, I agreed with you that atheists are freer than religious people in the sense that they have more freedom in choosing their values than religious people - in the sense that you are constrained by your religion as long as you are religious. But I didn't say that people shouldn't have the freedom to not be religious in the first place. I meant that pragmatism trumps individual freedom (individual freedom probably wasn't the right phrase to use) in the sense that I think being religious - and therefore having less freedom of choosing values as long as they were religious - would still be better for people than being atheists, in general, and for civilization. And I think that you think what I meant with pragmatism was that we should force people to be religious so that we can have the same morality, I don't.

    If there's no objective morality - then there's not even any objective inherent value in human life. So then there's no objective justice, there's no objective wrongdoing - because it's all just subjective. Don't you agree that, objectively, human life has inherent value?
    But I'm guessing that you actually believe that some moral values are objective? Or is it all relative?

    When you say personal shit, I'm assuming you're talking about things which only affect yourself. Who cares, is what I have to say to that - let people have different morals about those things. But they could still be wrong in their personal morality, just as I could be wrong. But let me, or them, be wrong.
    Last edited by Medically Fat; 2018-01-16 at 07:37 PM.


 
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